GMT project Yuki cases and dials option ?

[RolexAddict 1]

Not sure.

 

update: my special proto is in progress. Very positive . More infos in a few days as I don't work on it right now.

 

 

I don't like gambling but sometime you have to lose to learn. I made an experience, wanting to upgrade to Yukiwatch stuff for my own satisfaction. I am going to be more and more sceptical about their parts. I had already read on the other RGW people complaining as they were disapointed especially with Sub 5512/13/1680 non really accurate cases and bezels assembly not exactly made like the gen cases. A Yuki case is 550 usD + shipping.

In pm exchange with JoeyB for his GMT vintage project, I told him their GMT 1675 case looks to fat on pics. They sell also one with pointy crown guards, the CG cut and design is complete wrong. Both are 550 usD. Take the risk and order a case ? 550 usD for a rep case is a lot of money, imho, the minimum you can require for such a price is the replica of the gen construction and specs.

I ask myself if I should take the risk to invest 550 usD in something hazardous.

 

About movements:

Yuki has nothing to offer for the GMT cases they sell. No adaptal ring for an ETA movement. Imho, the only movements able to be fitted are the 2836-2 with his Chinese home made GMT complication, or the Asian DG3804B which is a true GMT movement. Both are 11,5 lines and approximatively the same thickness than the Rlx 1565/75. With the Asian, the problem is to source hands... The true GMT ETA 2893-2 will not fit a Rolex rep case, its a slim movement, will not match with the tube hole/crown position

 

Now about Yuki dials refinished by professional .... scammers ?

Many times I have handled and observed vintage GMT in shops. Dials have a dull black background and writings are very white and brillant. Those on the dial I got from Yuki are flat and from a poor grey.

 

I show this dial to a dial restorer here in Paris. The company is Atelka, working for all collectors shops from Paris. The technician I have talk with told me the same : the prints are poor. I asked him how much it will cost to refresh. He explain the dial has to be complete refinished. The cost is 110 euros. He took my dial and checked in his lab for 15 minutes. Came back and told me he checked with different GMT 1675 lettering jigs, no one match with my dial. I said, o.k, use your fonts, its o.k for me .... He said impossible, looking at me suspicious . I understood what he wanted to say... the Yuki dial is a fake, period.

He said the only way is he will take a pic from my dial, build a photo-engraved plate and then reproduce the same fonts but white and brillant. 180 euros for the pic and engraving + 110 euros = 290 euros just for a replica of a fake...

 

Yuki Comic and friendly positive attitude

Of course I replied to their email (they ask you to give a five stars positive feedback as soon you have placed an order) and asked for some explications, as usual in such situation its comic, its like : your dial is a fake, answer : thank you sir, I don't like coffee, I will take a cup of tea...

Thanks Yukiwatch !

 

no way, I will probably have this dial refinished and sell it for big bucks on EBay, B)

 

Imagine pigeons who buy 400 usD dials from Jewlery&Watch... should be the same kind of shit. About J&W, one thing is sure, their Daytona dials are 100% wrong, 100% made in South Est Asia.

 

The GMT dial face. Refinished it will be 1000 usD on the Ebay

 

The bottom.

 

 

Should I stop this impossible mission, shut up and start a collection buying $100 reps ???

[AllergyDoc 40]

Disappointing news, RA.

[Member X 91]

Never give up!

 

Once you crack it, you can keep the spec a secret and make $$$$$$

[Brightlight 0]

The problem is the ONLY way you will get 1:1 perfection is to buy a gen. I don't know if the NDT cases and dials are any better, but they are one hell of a price. Yuki seems to be a step up from the available reps, if still far from perfect, and they do actually take gen movements. In addition that dial does not say "Oyster Perpetual Date", that's a big improvement in my eyes!!! You get what you pay for, sure Yuki could probably get better dials done, but he wouldn't be selling them for $150, they'd be a lot more, the same with cases and everything else where better accuracy would be expensive.

 

I just think, as with VDB and his historically accurate Pams, that at the end of the day what you have is just a rep, a good one maybe, but still a rep, and to pay thousands of dollars for one seems crazy to me.

[JoeyB 0]

About movements:

Yuki has nothing to offer for the GMT cases they sell. No adaptal ring for an ETA movement. Imho, the only movements able to be fitted are the 2836-2 with his Chinese home made GMT complication, or the Asian DG3804B which is a true GMT movement. Both are 11,5 lines and approximatively the same thickness than the Rlx 1565/75. With the Asian, the problem is to source hands... The true GMT ETA 2893-2 will not fit a Rolex rep case, its a slim movement, will not match with the tube hole/crown position

 

 

Should I stop this impossible mission, shut up and start a collection buying $100 reps ???

 

RA, using the Silix Turn-O-Graph case that came with an Asian 2836-2 (no date wheel, no day wheel, no GMT) Once I centered the Singer Dial the ETA 2893-2 stem lined up perfectly. I believe it lined up because the dial is thicker than the ETA dials.

 

As you told me, these projects are tough. But if they were easy, everyone would be doing them!

The difficulties will take some time to overcome. The impossible will just take a little longer!

[solkryssare 109]

So who makes a good rep of a vintage Rollie case then? Some one must.

[JoeyB 0]

So who makes a good rep of a vintage Rollie case then? Some one must.

Depends. Which one?

[Brightlight 0]

So who makes a good rep of a vintage Rollie case then? Some one must.

 

Depends what you call a good rep. If a good rep is only 1:1 then the answer is Rolex

[speedzmaster 0]

You gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a rep case for over $600 or a terribly faked dial...all of which are made in Asian factories for $2 worth of metal and $20 worth of replication skill (Asian wages, right?).

 

Check out Yuki's Tudor 7032 Monte Carlo dial listed for $258. The claim is that its refinished by a professional.

There are so many things wrong with this dial!

 

Here's the gen:

[JoeyB 0]

You gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a rep case for over $600 or a terribly faked dial...all of which are made in Asian factories for $2 worth of metal and $20 worth of replication skill (Asian wages, right?).

You must be joking. More than likely the labor costs are less than the material costs.

Their prices for this stuff is out of line. As example the plastic insert, no bezel, to replace the bakelite insert on the Rolex 6542. The least expensive I could find from a dealer was $130, and the high was over $530. That's about 25¢worth of plastic and maybe a nickel for paint.

[speedzmaster 0]

You gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a rep case for over $600 or a terribly faked dial...all of which are made in Asian factories for $2 worth of metal and $20 worth of replication skill (Asian wages, right?).

You must be joking. More than likely the labor costs are less than the material costs.

Their prices for this stuff is out of line. As example the plastic insert, no bezel, to replace the bakelite insert on the Rolex 6542. The least expensive I could find from a dealer was $130, and the high was over $530. That's about 25¢worth of plastic and maybe a nickel for paint.

 

I'm also including use of machinery, paper work, administration fees, ....

 

Maybe we should learn Cantonese/Mandarin and get in contact with these factories directly?

Edited July 15, 2010 by speedzmaster

[no_one 0]

A Yuki case is 550 usD + shipping.

 

He quoted me $450.00. I did ask whether an eta would fit with an adapter, so perhaps he dropped the price assuming it was for a rep?

 

So who makes a good rep of a vintage Rollie case then? Some one must.

 

Yuki's case is very close for a 1675. Problem is that the rep gmt movements don't work. The stem is too low on the rep movements.

[Brightlight 0]

You gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a rep case for over $600 or a terribly faked dial...all of which are made in Asian factories for $2 worth of metal and $20 worth of replication skill (Asian wages, right?).

 

Yes indeed, but you gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a gen Rolex or Panerai or Hublot or Graham (on second thoughts, cancel Graham, you'd have to be fully certifiable to buy a Graham) for thousands and thousands of dollars made in Swiss factories (and Asian) for a fraction of their selling prices.

 

I don't see your point really, people pay what they perceive is the worth of something to them, or they don't buy. It may be crazy to you if you, say for argument's sake, purchase a rep case for over $600, but not necessarily crazy for other people. The main reason they are the price they are is largely because they are illegal and there usually is little alternative.

 

When I decided I would like to do a 1016 build, I had four choices. First was a rep case, but the ones I have seen don't fill me with confidence on the accuracy front as they appear to be some other Rolex case, probably a DJ, pressed into service. The other end of the scale was a gen case, my original intention, but it transpires they are very difficult to obtain and go for high prices, $2000 - $4000 I was told was not unusual. The third option is the Yuki case which seems reasonably accurate and is engraved not laser etched, takes gen parts including a gen movement if I ever decide to go down that route, and there is a converter ring available from Yuki to fit an ETA movement. Yuki's dial was also better than anything I found on ebay and the rep Explorer I models all have the metalised dial markers it appears. Fourth possibility was a Datejust 16200 case at $200 - $250 or more for the basic case with back and crystal but no bezel. This is assuming you can find one, there are not many about. The DJ smooth bezel is similarly difficult to get and expect to pay $150-$200 for that.Then you will need a Stilty conversion ring at $40 to fit the ETA movement. Other work has to be done too like drilling out the lug holes. But the DJ bezel is incorrect, it is not quite big enough in diameter, and needs to be opened out to fit over the 1016 Tropic (which is extra of course), or better still have a correct bezel manufactured (but at what cost) and at the end of the day you are probably getting a case as close to the 1016 as Yuki's case is for $450. I may indeed be crazy but it's a cunning sort of crazy and I end up with what I want, one of my grail watches which I will be very proud of

[solkryssare 109]

So who makes a good rep of a vintage Rollie case then? Some one must.

Depends. Which one?

 

 

Im looking for a really good 1665 case. One that is better then the MBW I have now.

[JoeyB 0]

You gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a rep case for over $600 or a terribly faked dial...all of which are made in Asian factories for $2 worth of metal and $20 worth of replication skill (Asian wages, right?).

You must be joking. More than likely the labor costs are less than the material costs.

Their prices for this stuff is out of line. As example the plastic insert, no bezel, to replace the bakelite insert on the Rolex 6542. The least expensive I could find from a dealer was $130, and the high was over $530. That's about 25¢worth of plastic and maybe a nickel for paint.

 

I'm also including use of machinery, paper work, administration fees, ....

 

Maybe we should learn Cantonese/Mandarin and get in contact with these factories directly?

I am making every attempt to make my own insert. I can't do it in the States for 25¢, but at $25 I can still sell them at a nice profit if I choose to.

[Brightlight 0]

So who makes a good rep of a vintage Rollie case then? Some one must.

Depends. Which one?

 

 

Im looking for a really good 1665 case. One that is better then the MBW I have now.

 

Sol, does the Yuki 1665 case have problems then?

[speedzmaster 0]

You gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a rep case for over $600 or a terribly faked dial...all of which are made in Asian factories for $2 worth of metal and $20 worth of replication skill (Asian wages, right?).

 

Yes indeed, but you gotta wonder why anybody would be so crazy to purchase a gen Rolex or Panerai or Hublot or Graham (on second thoughts, cancel Graham, you'd have to be fully certifiable to buy a Graham) for thousands and thousands of dollars made in Swiss factories (and Asian) for a fraction of their selling prices.

 

I don't see your point really, people pay what they perceive is the worth of something to them, or they don't buy. It may be crazy to you if you, say for argument's sake, purchase a rep case for over $600, but not necessarily crazy for other people. The main reason they are the price they are is largely because they are illegal and there usually is little alternative.

 

When I decided I would like to do a 1016 build, I had four choices. First was a rep case, but the ones I have seen don't fill me with confidence on the accuracy front as they appear to be some other Rolex case, probably a DJ, pressed into service. The other end of the scale was a gen case, my original intention, but it transpires they are very difficult to obtain and go for high prices, $2000 - $4000 I was told was not unusual. The third option is the Yuki case which seems reasonably accurate and is engraved not laser etched, takes gen parts including a gen movement if I ever decide to go down that route, and there is a converter ring available from Yuki to fit an ETA movement. Yuki's dial was also better than anything I found on ebay and the rep Explorer I models all have the metalised dial markers it appears. Fourth possibility was a Datejust 16200 case at $200 - $250 or more for the basic case with back and crystal but no bezel. This is assuming you can find one, there are not many about. The DJ smooth bezel is similarly difficult to get and expect to pay $150-$200 for that.Then you will need a Stilty conversion ring at $40 to fit the ETA movement. Other work has to be done too like drilling out the lug holes. But the DJ bezel is incorrect, it is not quite big enough in diameter, and needs to be opened out to fit over the 1016 Tropic (which is extra of course), or better still have a correct bezel manufactured (but at what cost) and at the end of the day you are probably getting a case as close to the 1016 as Yuki's case is for $450. I may indeed be crazy but it's a cunning sort of crazy and I end up with what I want, one of my grail watches which I will be very proud of

 

Rolex steel is better.

[RolexAddict 1]

Never give up!

 

Once you crack it, you can keep the spec a secret and make $$$$$$

 

The GMT I am finishing right now will be almost perfect, except the DATE on the dial. But it could be a 16750 transitional. I know exactly how to process machine work on GMT rep cases to fit gen specs dials, but it take to much time and will not make so much bucks,

What I can't understand is why no one maker/dealer start to work on a gmt serious project. The new Explorer from Josh/Andrew is o.k, but a gmt would have more succes and sales

 

The problem is the ONLY way you will get 1:1 perfection is to buy a gen. I don't know if the NDT cases and dials are any better, but they are one hell of a price. Yuki seems to be a step up from the available reps, if still far from perfect, and they do actually take gen movements. In addition that dial does not say "Oyster Perpetual Date", that's a big improvement in my eyes!!! You get what you pay for, sure Yuki could probably get better dials done, but he wouldn't be selling them for $150, they'd be a lot more, the same with cases and everything else where better accuracy would be expensive.

 

I just think, as with VDB and his historically accurate Pams, that at the end of the day what you have is just a rep, a good one maybe, but still a rep, and to pay thousands of dollars for one seems crazy to me.

 

I know its quite impossible to get a 1:1. I am talking about a 99 usD dial -140 usD with the hands set- sold as a gen refinished by a professional, and its not at all a gen. Just the same as our reps, without DATE. My lume is better, I should start a vintage dial business.

Gens Rolex movements for the 1675/16750 are 11,5 lines and same thickness than a basic ETA. What people doesn't understand about case machining is that even in a rep case you can fit a gen movement. Same with some DW case for Daytonas sold pricy because "gen movements will fit" this is Chinese marketing.

They take us for idiots. Seriously.

On another side, no Asian deceits, no reps

[Brightlight 0]

The problem is the ONLY way you will get 1:1 perfection is to buy a gen. I don't know if the NDT cases and dials are any better, but they are one hell of a price. Yuki seems to be a step up from the available reps, if still far from perfect, and they do actually take gen movements. In addition that dial does not say "Oyster Perpetual Date", that's a big improvement in my eyes!!! You get what you pay for, sure Yuki could probably get better dials done, but he wouldn't be selling them for $150, they'd be a lot more, the same with cases and everything else where better accuracy would be expensive.

 

I just think, as with VDB and his historically accurate Pams, that at the end of the day what you have is just a rep, a good one maybe, but still a rep, and to pay thousands of dollars for one seems crazy to me.

 

I know its quite impossible to get a 1:1. I am talking about a 99 usD dial -140 usD with the hands set- sold as a gen refinished by a professional, and its not at all a gen. Just the same as our reps, without DATE. My lume is better, I should start a vintage dial business.

Gens Rolex movements for the 1675/16750 are 11,5 lines and same thickness than a basic ETA. What people doesn't understand about case machining is that even in a rep case you can fit a gen movement. Same with some DW case for Daytonas sold pricy because "gen movements will fit" this is Chinese marketing.

They take us for idiots. Seriously.

On another side, no Asian deceits, no reps

 

If you can fit a gen movement that easily in place of an ETA, how is it you need an adaptor ring to fit an ETA in the case made for a gen movement? I'm sure the gen can be fitted in a case that takes an ETA if you have the correct adaptor. Unfortunately we don't all have lathes or the ability to use them so have to use what is available. I cannot buy an adaptor off the shelf to fit a gen movement in a rep case, so it makes sense to buy a case which will take a rep movment and an adaptor off the shelf to convert to an ETA. It's called leaving your options open and you expect to pay more for the facility. Regarding dials, why don't you start a vintage dial business, then we'd maybe have a better option than MBW, Yuki, NDT and ebay? You would be treated like a hero, believe me

 

This thread is really a bit surreal. First you start bad mouthing Yuki based on the case in a pic looking too thick. Then you continue to complain about their dials which are not 100% accurate. Fair enough, you may be right, you obviously have a lot of knowledge but it's the reasoning you are using that doesn't make sense to me. You seem to expect 1:1 accuracy for what is a small amount of money compared to gen parts (And don't say you don't, you talk about the lettering on the Yuki dial not being as white as a new dial, but wouldn't a dial have possibly faded over 40 years or so, and then your refinishing expert says it doesn't match any of his templates. By how much I wonder? Even with a loupe it can be hard to see the differences that must exist). I buy a Yuki dial because it is a) much closer to gen than anything rep I can buy, and because it is much, much cheaper than a gen dial, even assuming I could buy a gen dial which hadn't been refinished by those same asian 'experts'. Because Yuki say it is a gen refinished by experts doesn't mean I have to believe them, in the same way I don't have to believe the heart attack in bucket from Col Sanders is 'finger lickin good' or that Coke is actually the 'real thing'. It is simply better than anything else I can get for the money. And be honest, can anyone tell the difference without the benefit of a loupe?

 

I think your expectations are too high and the only way you will meet them is by buying a gen or gen parts. Don't get hung up on what are minor inaccuracies, you do great work, some of the best I've seen, but being a perfectionist will only drive you mad.

[RolexAddict 1]

:blue-screen-of-death:

I wish the same emoticon but with a guy throwing watch parts...

 

I get screwed with GMT's as I try to replicate what I see in shop front windows : 1675 with a thin case and a sharp dial with white printed letters.

 

Most of the time 1675 photos shows watches with brocken, scratched, rust dials and hands. These are unique pieces in private collections and sold pricy in auctions. These are not wearable. In a Rolex collector shop, all vintage watches are serviced, repolished, dials and hands are refinsihed/remplaced.

 

These watches are wearable vintage with a light patina, minor scratches and the most important is the dial. If I show a Yuki dial in these shops, people are going to laugh. Prices are starting at 4000 euros (+ or - 5000usd) for a good one.

 

What I want to say :

Actually its impossible to produce a correct 1675 for a low price. I jump from one idea to another and get crazy, no solution. Or using the dial with DATE

If I spend time on a thick case to redesign the thickness and the rehaut to accept gen specs dials, if I pay 99usd a dial and it cost arround 300 more to get it looking right, + an eta etc. etc.

The sale price would be around 1200usd so, 1200 vs 5000 ? but i don't know if anyone would be interested

 

Or, yes make dials. Impossible here. No one with equiped shop will accept produce rep Rolex dials. I started to discuss with Chinese, no way, probably I didn't talk with the right people. Or they avoid the discussion as they don't want to associate foreign people in such business

[solkryssare 109]

So who makes a good rep of a vintage Rollie case then? Some one must.

Depends. Which one?

 

 

Im looking for a really good 1665 case. One that is better then the MBW I have now.

 

Sol, does the Yuki 1665 case have problems then?

 

From what I know its pretty good. CGs need shaving tho. But Im not a Rollie Jedi master like some on here.

[Member X 91]

:blue-screen-of-death:

I wish the same emoticon but with a guy throwing watch parts...

 

I get screwed with GMT's as I try to replicate what I see in shop front windows : 1675 with a thin case and a sharp dial with white printed letters.

 

Most of the time 1675 photos shows watches with brocken, scratched, rust dials and hands. These are unique pieces in private collections and sold pricy in auctions. These are not wearable. In a Rolex collector shop, all vintage watches are serviced, repolished, dials and hands are refinsihed/remplaced.

 

These watches are wearable vintage with a light patina, minor scratches and the most important is the dial. If I show a Yuki dial in these shops, people are going to laugh. Prices are starting at 4000 euros (+ or - 5000usd) for a good one.

 

What I want to say :

Actually its impossible to produce a correct 1675 for a low price. I jump from one idea to another and get crazy, no solution. Or using the dial with DATE

If I spend time on a thick case to redesign the thickness and the rehaut to accept gen specs dials, if I pay 99usd a dial and it cost arround 300 more to get it looking right, + an eta etc. etc.

The sale price would be around 1200usd so, 1200 vs 5000 ? but i don't know if anyone would be interested

 

Or, yes make dials. Impossible here. No one with equiped shop will accept produce rep Rolex dials. I started to discuss with Chinese, no way, probably I didn't talk with the right people. Or they avoid the discussion as they don't want to associate foreign people in such business

I admire your persistence, RA

 

I think the lower priced models are the way to go - $1000+ is a LOT to spend on a rep, and as you say, you can explain the 'DATE' as being some sort of transition model, if anyone is that anal about it and calls you out. The rest of the watch looks great and suitably vintage so shouldn't arouse much suspicion, especially on a rivet bracelet

 

I love mine!

 

Keep up the good work, it is people such as yourself, doing research and pushing boundaries, that help progress rep development

[Brightlight 0]

:blue-screen-of-death:

I wish the same emoticon but with a guy throwing watch parts...

 

I get screwed with GMT's as I try to replicate what I see in shop front windows : 1675 with a thin case and a sharp dial with white printed letters.

 

Most of the time 1675 photos shows watches with brocken, scratched, rust dials and hands. These are unique pieces in private collections and sold pricy in auctions. These are not wearable. In a Rolex collector shop, all vintage watches are serviced, repolished, dials and hands are refinsihed/remplaced.

 

These watches are wearable vintage with a light patina, minor scratches and the most important is the dial. If I show a Yuki dial in these shops, people are going to laugh. Prices are starting at 4000 euros (+ or - 5000usd) for a good one.

 

What I want to say :

Actually its impossible to produce a correct 1675 for a low price. I jump from one idea to another and get crazy, no solution. Or using the dial with DATE

If I spend time on a thick case to redesign the thickness and the rehaut to accept gen specs dials, if I pay 99usd a dial and it cost arround 300 more to get it looking right, + an eta etc. etc.

The sale price would be around 1200usd so, 1200 vs 5000 ? but i don't know if anyone would be interested

 

Or, yes make dials. Impossible here. No one with equiped shop will accept produce rep Rolex dials. I started to discuss with Chinese, no way, probably I didn't talk with the right people. Or they avoid the discussion as they don't want to associate foreign people in such business

 

 

Believe me I do sympathise, I just feel you are setting your standards too high for what is a rep and frustrating yourself in the process. The truth is that 99% of people don't notice your watch anyway, and those that do do not know the difference between a gen and a bad rep. Sure if you go into an AD or a vintage Rolex seller, you risk getting the flaws noticed, but why would you do that anyway? As you say, the big problem is the price, but don't forget people on RG and RWG Jr are paying $850 for Pbdad's vintage DSSD, the 'Abyss', and thousands are paid for VDB's creation so in theory you might sell one or two at $1200 if they were accurate enough, but it is still a big risk. I don't know what the answer is, and reps are getting much better than they used to be, making the modder's job twice as difficult. Perhaps the 1675 is not a good model to consider because of the problems with the GMT side and the case?