When a clone isn't a clone: making an SOSF franken

[jerkstore 14]

As reps go, the Breitling Superocean Steelfish is very nice. The gen is a classic, and so is the rep. I bought an H factory v2 "Asian ETA 2836-2" (more on this later) from Toro. Ordering was easy, and shipping was fast. I unboxed it six days after confirming QC pics.

 

As many of us have found, the H-factory gets a lot of little details right. And even the ones that are a little off--like the dial--are still high quality.

 

Rep left, gen dial right.

 

Sure the color is too bright, the markers and numerals are a little too big, and it doesn't reflect light quite as nicely. Still, it's a good attempt. For all those reasons, though, a gen dial is a great upgrade. It makes a nice rep a whole lot nicer.

 

Breitling parts are very hard to find. Although expensive, genuine Rolex dials are pretty easy to come by. In contrast, finding a genuine Breitling--let alone Steelfish--dial for a reasonable price is nearly impossible. I pulled the trigger on a blue dial, to see what all the fuss is about.

 

It's worth it.

 

 

I figured it would be an easy swap... Toro sold me what he called on his website an "Asian 2836-2". I wanted to drop in a Swiss movement, add the gen dial, and port the rep hands over. No such luck.

 

I was very surprised to learn that my 2826-2 clone is not a clone at all. It is instead a new high-beat version of the DG2813. It is also a piece of crap. The "ETA 2836-2" that Toro and other dealers (according to him) are selling in at least some of their watches is a clone of the 2836-2 in the same sense that a Yugo is a clone of a BMW. They are both cars, and these are both movements. And one of them is, well, $#@£.

 

On receiving the watch, I tried to operate the crown. I found that the stem was tight and didn't easily allow me to switch between positions. A keyless fix is pretty straightforward. But I couldn't find anything obviously out if place. It was just made badly and didn't work right. Beyond that, I didn't have any replacement parts--this being a new movement. I imagine that many of our watchmakers are running into the same problem.

 

When I brought the problems up with Toro a few weeks ago, he kindly offered a full refund. That's commendable. He also agreed to change the movement description on his website. Unfortunately, as of today, the high-beat 2813 movement is still called a "2836-2 clone" in his ad (see http://www.torobravos2014.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=656).

 

Read more about the problems of the new movement here:

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=170876

 

In the past, I and others here have advised noobs to get the ETA clone version because it's cheaper, works well, and is nearly as reliable as the Swiss counterpart. But if dealers are calling this junk movement a "2836-2 clone", that advice no longer applies. I would say: get the basic 21j or the Swiss. Stay far away from this one. I would hope that out trusted dealers revise their product descriptions. We all know what an actual clone ETA is.

 

Back to the franken-making: the hands didn't transfer easily. The hour hand size on the junk "clone" was too large. Weighing my options, I picked up some genuine hands rather than take the chance that my modded rep hands would come loose and scratch the dial. I had a similar problem with the datewheel. A 2813 datewheel is completely different than a 2836-2. And Breitling fonts for the latter are hard to find. But I got lucky and saw a 2879 datewheel on the bay with the right font. Because that movement uses the same datewheel as the 2836-2, it worked out.

 

In any case, here is the finished product. I'm very happy with it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2014 by jerkstore

[Kcore 0]

Very informative and good information here, thank you! Also, as always, excellent detail on your franken work.

 

But what happened to your trade craft DJs? I so look forward to all the wonderful DJ builds

[SSTEEL 0]

Thanks for the info mate, lovely franken now

 

I agree about this POS movement, its very wrong of our TRUSTED DEALERS to misrepresent their offerings, and this needs addressing ASAP IMO.

 

Great work Mike, perseverance paid off mate.!

[plankton 1]

Really good info! Thanks!

[AllergyDoc 40]

Dealers have had a year now to update their listings about this issue, yet have any done so?

[Daywatch 4]

This was very interesting reading and a lot of info to digest. The result is simply stunning, superb. The gen blue looks fantastic, think blue is also the most difficult to rep, that´s why I got the white one, only reason.

 

This blue is amazing on the gen dial - well worth the change. Couldn´t have done it though when meeting problems as You did.

 

Congratulations and thanks for sharing info and pics. Great job.

[Calcidose 0]

Very good.

Nice pics.

[powderfreak 0]

Dealers have had a year now to update their listings about this issue, yet have any done so?

 

I don't think so. Not very nice imo.

 

By the way: Thanks to the OP for linking to that thread on RWI, very interesting indeed!

[Frankt8242 1]

Dealers have had a year now to update their listings about this issue, yet have any done so?

Shit.....They've had 10 years to stop calling ST-19's "Lemanias" too!!... :giggle:

Edited February 13, 2014 by Frankt8242

[olly593 0]

I agree there shit movements, it's a pity in such a great watch.

 

Been there done that with sending it back, arrived running a few hours slow a day. Informed TD, instead of sending it back sent it to a watch-smith for repair who opened it up and immediately said what the movement was. Informed the TD who told me it was a "factory basic rep 2836 movement" and send it back for repair which i did. Got it back a few months later, worked for 24 hours then totally Dead. Informed the dealer again, Mods got involved etc. Sent it back for a refund but by this time it had got some scratches from removing links etc. Settled on a partial refund just to forget about it and move on, bought a Steinhart and never looked back. But for some reason i still find myself hear trying to convince myself that I'm done with reps and don't need a Tudor Black Bay

[JohnG 41]

Now I appreciate the fact that Marvellous Replica includes photographs of the movement in his QC pics.

 

Good thread, thanks.

 

.

[centrum 0]

This is a very disappointing news to me, as a customer who was planning on purchasing the SOSF from Toro. I thought this deal was the best deal in this rep market. But I guess it was not; it was rather a cheaper version of SOSF with a DG2813. RWG staff needs to handle this problem ASAP.

[olly593 0]

This is a very disappointing news to me, as a customer who was planning on purchasing the SOSF from Toro. I thought this deal was the best deal in this rep market. But I guess it was not; it was rather a cheaper version of SOSF with a DG2813. RWG staff needs to handle this problem ASAP.

 

It's not just Toro, it would appear that all the new H Factory V2's have this movement. There was a thread over at RWI BY UK Watch Services about it but i can't seem to find it now. The problem seems to be if the Factory's lie to the Dealers, its quite likely the dealers won't know about it.

[centrum 0]

This is a very disappointing news to me, as a customer who was planning on purchasing the SOSF from Toro. I thought this deal was the best deal in this rep market. But I guess it was not; it was rather a cheaper version of SOSF with a DG2813. RWG staff needs to handle this problem ASAP.

 

It's not just Toro, it would appear that all the new H Factory V2's have this movement. There was a thread over at RWI BY UK Watch Services about it but i can't seem to find it now. The problem seems to be if the Factory's lie to the Dealers, its quite likely the dealers won't know about it.

 

I see. I know other sellers sell the same watch and state Asian clone at a higher price.

 

Do you think those sellers sell it with an actual Asian clone movement since it costs more?

[J!m 289]

Good job as usual Mike.

 

What I find interesting is we sem to have similar taste in watches... I have often found myself thinking about doing exactly what you did here...

 

Anyway, thatnks for the distraction! Now back to the 5512 grindstone.

[Herbalife 2]

Do you think those sellers sell it with an actual Asian clone movement since it costs more?

Yes, this seems to be the important question.

[olly593 0]

Do you think those sellers sell it with an actual Asian clone movement since it costs more?

Yes, this seems to be the important question.

 

Is you for real, whats Herbalife. It sounds awesome............ Where do i send money?

Edited February 13, 2014 by olly593

[Herbalife 2]

I like goats

 

Ask me why.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited February 13, 2014 by RichardMiami

[olly593 0]

Lose weight now.

 

Ask me how.

 

 

How?

Edited February 13, 2014 by olly593

[Herbalife 2]

I like goats.

 

Ask me why

[AllergyDoc 40]

Do you think those sellers sell it with an actual Asian clone movement since it costs more?

Yes, this seems to be the important question.

 

Is you for real, whats Herbalife. It sounds awesome............ Where do i send money?

[Robin195959 2]

Great job against the odds.

Very interesting, informative and worrying comments around the miss selling of these movements.

[jerkstore 14]

Thanks for the kind words, all! I find myself drawn to the dial throughout the day. It's magnetic.

 

And Micky: couldn't agree more. Trusted dealers need to be upfront about the movement they are selling us.

 

Very informative and good information here, thank you! Also, as always, excellent detail on your franken work.

 

But what happened to your trade craft DJs? I so look forward to all the wonderful DJ builds

 

Never fear. More DJs are on the way... I've got a silver tapestry 16030 on deck.

My latest was a blue dial: http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=69808

 

 

I know other sellers sell the same watch and state Asian clone at a higher price.

 

Do you think those sellers sell it with an actual Asian clone movement since it costs more?

 

I would assume that any new H factory v2 SOSF contains this movement. Your best bet for a clone is a used M2M. Ask for a movement shot.

 

Maybe that's the same way we can get dealers to show their cards: just ask them to regularly post a movement shot during QC. The new 2813 uses screws rather than clamps to attach the dial to the movement. Easiest tell.

 

Good job as usual Mike.

 

What I find interesting is we sem to have similar taste in watches... I have often found myself thinking about doing exactly what you did here...

 

Anyway, thatnks for the distraction! Now back to the 5512 grindstone.

 

Do it! I expected the swap to be easy, once I found the parts. Luckily the problems weren't too tough to get around.

Edited February 13, 2014 by jerkstore

[J!m 289]

Must...stay...focused...

 

I just got another opportunity via pm I am wrestling with as well...

 

Too many projects and not enough cash.

 

Sea master 300 is not done

Rolex 5512 is not done.

This new project via pm pops up

Super ocean is calling

 

I need another income!

[HeavyKrush 16]

Fantastic job buddy! That is some major bullshit about the movement though, glad you were able to get it sorted.