Have you been dumped with a High Beat 2813 (SB1HRZ2)?

[Fat Panda 30]

This set of Timegrapher photos from one of the factories we bought from is why we broke relations with them. Too bad we didn't scrutinize them when we first got them. Notice anything odd about the photos?

 

- FP

 

[umecha 0]

Micky -- I'm not sure what the part is called, but I have always used the gear wheel just counter-clockwise from the balance wheel to tell the difference between 2824 and 2813, has that been changed in these new 2813's?

 

See pics below for detail.

 

2824 -- The silver wheel circled has large spread out teeth on the 2824

 

 

 

2813 -- On the 2813, the wheel in the same relative positioned, circled, has much finer teeth.

 

 

 

Thats a 21J movement not a 2813 mate.

 

Here's a 2813 from the rear..

 

Untitled by Micky.!, on Flickr

 

Ignore the movement holder/faux ring.

 

I always thought that 2813 referred to a 21j movement? Like the DG2813, though it's usually used as generic term for the cheapie 21j movements regardless of which factory the come from.

Plus, if this new '2813' beats at 28.8kbph as per the movement it's meant to be cloning, then would it not be more akin to the 4813 rather than the 2813 which beats at 21.6kbph (from memory, might be wrong).

 

Checking Ranfft and Ofrei would suggest the same with regards to calling it a 2813

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&&2uswk&China_2813

http://www.ofrei.com/page1119.html

[Fat Panda 30]

Thank you for the information. Greatly appreciated. Education is the key to fighting this problem. I can't speak for other TDs, but for myself and my partner, I know we didn't know this stuff. If we are educated, and know what to look for, then this sort of thing should not get by us and we can send the watches back to the factories until they send what was paid for.

 

Thanks again.

 

- FP

 

 

You going to open all CB's .. not glass obviously and check ..?

 

 

Dal.

 

And photograph them if necessary.

 

 

Will this be reflected in the price .. or part of your standard service ..?

 

Standard I would think, I guess it depends on how time consuming it becomes.

[Mike on a bike 0]

Well if you are going to verify movements Fat Panda I can assure you a lot of guys will be dealing w/ you, personally I think you can charge a small premium for it. Considering what a lot of us are being sent it is an excellent business model to increase volume.

[adaptive 8]

This is the reason I don't dare paying extra for a "Swiss ETA" - have heard horror stories about those beeing picked togheter from left over scraps and whatnot. Doesn't seem worth it unless you can get guarantees.

[Kcore 0]

Thanks Micky! You are TOP guy. Honest with a good moral compass and work ethic. I''m proud to call you a friend!

[agrimtex 0]

Very useful guide/info, many thanks for sharing !!

[Fat Panda 30]

The 2813 looks so much like the Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, I don't know what the differences are.

 

The Chinese translation "here are Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, copy from Citizen 8210 movement"

 

 

 

http://forums.watchu...nts-538122.html

[agntkerr 0]

Im am glad I have held onto a lot of my watches with swiss eta's in them from years ago...they actually were swiss eta's and they are still running.

[black263 228]

This set of Timegrapher photos from one of the factories we bought from is why we broke relations with them. Too bad we didn't scrutinize them when we first got them. Notice anything odd about the photos?

 

- FP

 

See if I can spot it. The watch has moved on 6 seconds, but the timegrapher trace hasn't changed. The display looks like it's been photoshopped, judging by the margins.

[Fat Panda 30]

That was my conclusion also.

 

- FP

[J!m 289]

I always ask for the Eta clone, assuming I will get one. The simple reason is, when it dies, I can swap in a gen Eta easily (or a TC 2824 which is also quite good).

 

It runs as long as it does, and I just scrap the old movement (or sent to Ssteel) when it dies. Then the Eta can be serviced as needed in the future.

[Genius 281]

Is it OK to ask which TDs are doing this, I'm looking to buy a yacht master and want a high beat and been struggling to decide between a new type 2813 25j or eta clone.. After reading this wondering if it's worth paying more because I could just be given the cheaper one and never know

[Left Coast Guy 24]

The 2813 looks so much like the Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, I don't know what the differences are.

 

The Chinese translation "here are Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, copy from Citizen 8210 movement"

 

 

 

http://forums.watchu...nts-538122.html

 

Yes, now I am confused too. Only a hobbyist when it comes to watchsmith-ing, but I've now been through at least a dozen movements to different degrees, so thought I was on to something.

 

That version you have pictured looks like a 2813 to me.

 

So here is an image of 2836-2:

 

Now here is a pic of a 2813/8215:

:

To me that version you've posted pictures of certainly looks a lot more like the 2813 and the 2836.

[J!m 289]

The 2813 winding bridge is flat on top and the Eta/clone has a stepped bridge. That is easy enough to pick up on...

[Fat Panda 30]

Check out the link at the bottom as well for more discussion about that movement.

[trailboss99 994]

This set of Timegrapher photos from one of the factories we bought from is why we broke relations with them. Too bad we didn't scrutinize them when we first got them. Notice anything odd about the photos?

 

- FP

 

See if I can spot it. The watch has moved on 6 seconds, but the timegrapher trace hasn't changed. The display looks like it's been photoshopped, judging by the margins.

 

Not only that but the amplitude is waaay to high.

[SSTEEL 0]

This set of Timegrapher photos from one of the factories we bought from is why we broke relations with them. Too bad we didn't scrutinize them when we first got them. Notice anything odd about the photos?

 

- FP

 

 

Apart from the dodgy display, the stop button has been pressed, the led indicates this.

 

With regards the confusion on the actual name of this new breed 2813, I am not 100% what its actually called, and need to find out this for sure.

 

Micky -- I'm not sure what the part is called, but I have always used the gear wheel just counter-clockwise from the balance wheel to tell the difference between 2824 and 2813, has that been changed in these new 2813's?

 

See pics below for detail.

 

2824 -- The silver wheel circled has large spread out teeth on the 2824

 

 

 

2813 -- On the 2813, the wheel in the same relative positioned, circled, has much finer teeth.

 

 

 

Thats a 21J movement not a 2813 mate.

 

Here's a 2813 from the rear..

 

Untitled by Micky.!, on Flickr

 

Ignore the movement holder/faux ring.

 

I always thought that 2813 referred to a 21j movement? Like the DG2813, though it's usually used as generic term for the cheapie 21j movements regardless of which factory the come from.

Plus, if this new '2813' beats at 28.8kbph as per the movement it's meant to be cloning, then would it not be more akin to the 4813 rather than the 2813 which beats at 21.6kbph (from memory, might be wrong).

 

Checking Ranfft and Ofrei would suggest the same with regards to calling it a 2813

http://www.ranfft.de...uswk&China_2813

http://www.ofrei.com/page1119.html

 

Great info thanks. So if this movement is not the 2813, then what the hell is it I wonder, all I do know is its a clone of a clone ETA 2836-2, but with several key differences including a poorly construction auto wind bridge.

[SSTEEL 0]

The 2813 looks so much like the Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, I don't know what the differences are.

 

The Chinese translation "here are Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, copy from Citizen 8210 movement"

 

 

 

http://forums.watchu...nts-538122.html

The 2813 looks so much like the Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, I don't know what the differences are.

 

The Chinese translation "here are Mingzhu 2836-2 movement, copy from Citizen 8210 movement"

 

 

 

http://forums.watchu...nts-538122.html

 

Yes, now I am confused too. Only a hobbyist when it comes to watchsmith-ing, but I've now been through at least a dozen movements to different degrees, so thought I was on to something.

 

That version you have pictured looks like a 2813 to me.

 

So here is an image of 2836-2:

 

Now here is a pic of a 2813/8215:

:

To me that version you've posted pictures of certainly looks a lot more like the 2813 and the 2836.

 

Great research guys, so this leads us to a junction in the road, we need to figure out the correct name/maker, number for this 2813, which I believe now I am calling it the wrong name.

 

As you can se on the 2836-2 fitted to the Titoni above, it clearly has dial feet clamps, whereas this new breed clone has screws.

[SSTEEL 0]

Ok, I was told in the thread below that this was the new breed 2813, a clone of the 2836 eta clone.

 

http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=77832&hl=movement&fromsearch=1

 

Not to be confused with the DG2813 which is a completely different movement, the DG2813 is 21J, this 2813 is 25J.

[xnview 0]

Nice, just realised I got a 2813 highbeat instead of a ETA clone... No wonder that my watch had a jerky time setting, and sometimes pretty accurate (+/- 30 sec a day) and sometimes was losing 5 minutes to 5 hours a day.

[black263 228]

This is fascinating, and until it's better resolved, that's me out of the new market. The dealers that can guarantee that I don't get this POS will be my go-to when I return. (FP is looking good, particularly after the superb service on the first watch I bought from him.)

[black263 228]

More and more members are discovering they have been duped with a 2813 new breed movement POS instead of the advertised 2836-2 ETA clone, so much so, I have come across many, and have had the unpleasant task of informing the owners.

 

I have labelled some photos to help one of my customers explain to the TD the differences between a eta clone, and a 2813, and thought I would post them here so you can check yourself too.

 

Its quite easy to tell if you have a 2813 new breed fitted. The ETA, and 2836-2 ETA clone both have dial feet hook clamps, whereas the 2813 has dial feet screws.

 

Another tell, is the balance area, there is a circular cut out, and no stampings whatsoever.

 

Another tell is the auto wind bridge, but this is only noticeable when you remove it.

 

Visually they look very similar, but they are far from it, the 2813 is a inferior movement, period.

 

2014-06-02_2235 by Micky.!, on Flickr

 

2014-06-02_2237 by Micky.!, on Flickr

 

2014-06-02_2237 by Micky.!, on Flickr

 

2014-06-02_2239 by Micky.!, on Flickr

I'm still not sure what I'm looking at here. Can you post comparison pictures?

[Conex 0]

Found a few more that are 2813s this morning. Not impressed.

[James. 4]

Yup, reps for ya. At least there's fewer pubes now. Seriously.