Is there a market?

[Silverspeed 10]

Depending on the model I for one would be interested and willing to pay...

 

Like said above, not for the current versions of the Submariners, Seadwellers and such...but $850 for a 1:1 rep of the Daytona secs@9 on the other hand shouldn't be to hard to sell on the boards

 

Too bad the factory will only supply in batches of 10...otherwise it would have been much easier to find out

[Ska 11]

I agree with SS, in that I for one would be willing to pay those for a rep which was truly 1:1 if it was a watch i really wanted.

I also think you'd be able to find enough people to satisfy the minimum quota without too much difficulty across the rep boards.

 

For 100% accurate versions of watches where the gen costs tens of thousands I think $1000 or roundabout is a perfectly reasonable price, (especially if you consider that its only 2-3 times more than people will regularly spend on 'ultimate' reps - if people really want it, they will just save up for a couple of months and buy 1 where they may have bought 2 or three 'normal' reps.)

 

If you start selling them. Count me in.

 

People will need LOTS of photos though to part with that kind of moolah.

[coolin 0]

my 2 penneth, im in the same mind as most of the responses given here. I am happy to pay around $300 for a decent rep but any more and I couldn't personally justify the spend. My only exception would be a true tourbillon which I will at some point definitely buy when the right model comes along

 

col

[andygt 0]

I think if you are going to offer these then the best bet would be the secs @ 9 Daytona - at $850 it is still within most peoples grasp price wise, would be very popular and also represents value when compared to the cost of the gen. Plus I want one!

Personally as soon as the rep price starts going north of 50% of the gen cost I start to wonder why not just save for the gen.

Sure there is a market for the PAMs too - just check the RG sales area for proof that people will pay $1000+ and those are nowhere near perfect. Little Hero's stuff is also around that price point and he seems to make a living :P

[Member X 91]

Like said above, not for the current versions of the Submariners, Seadwellers and such...but $850 for a 1:1 rep of the Daytona secs@9 on the other hand shouldn't be to hard to sell on the boards

Spinmaster already charges $600+ for his vintage daytonas, and they usually sell, so I think for a good 1:1 version the market would be there, although people paying that money would probably all want different dials etc...

 

And Little Hero PAM 111s are, what, $1400+?

 

I agree about the modern stuff not being that much Value For Money when the gens are not that much more in the big scheme of things, but then we have the occasional newbie on here who's got stung for $1k+ for some canal street rep off a scam site, so people do exist who will pay it!

 

I would think some sort of 100% money up front or 50% deposit payment would be needed to ensure you don't get left with unsold stock that someone said they'd take, but I know boards are reluctant to allow this due to past problems.

 

I think you would need to put up a list of all the options, poll people on the most popular (asking them only to vote if they actually have or could get the money), then go from there. As above, plenty of pics would be needed! lol

[sharkie 0]

Cartier santos $1500 this is already out in the open

Panerai 233 with correct looking movement $2000+

Rolex submariner with correct looking movement $1200

Panerai hand winding models with perfect movements dials etc $1200+

But there are dozens more

Problem is they will only supply in 10's so there is a considerable outlay to get a range.

 

How about these (including those in the "dozens more" category) with everything correct that is visible after the watch has been put on the wrist? That is, build ten of one watch that has only that which is visible from/on the wrist 1:1 to gen (and i do truly mean 1:1 to gen). So basically, your best-in-the-planet source wouldn't even need to do a good job on the case back engravings (if any) and they can use whatever movement that still gives the correct bph. Will they do that? If so, all I would need to do is organize a mini-group buy on a rep forum that allows group buys to be organized (i know, probably easier said then done (maybe), but with enough tenacity and desperation, surely possible). In this scenario that I've laid out, the prices got to be cheaper (if them and you are willing). I'm all excited now. Looking forward to your reply, Robert bro.

[Baldrick 1]

I'm always very suspicious of people who want 100% accuracy, allied to a NEED to have a genuine boxset with all genuine paperwork, hang tags etc etc, it smacks to me of a number of aspects.

 

1. The need to convince themselves or others of the authenticity of their watch and status, read : 'ROLEX'

 

2. The need to have all of the above in order to perpetuate a 'gen' scam.

 

I can't conceive of ANY circumstance that would require the production of a box and paperwork and accessories , they're usually kept at home, however, if your friends hold the perception that you're wearing a fake and your substantiation is wrapped up in the production of box and papers, then perhaps a re-assessment of the qualities of friendship is in order, or a re-evaluation of your own insecurities, if you believe that your character and status are the sum of parts as defined by a watch.

 

I can conceive of a situation where box and paperwork may be required to perpetuate said scam, but no other, even GENUINE watches are only ever presented with box and papers when being sold!

 

If you are the type to take your fake to a horological show or show it to a dealer / reveal it on a gen forum and you get bitch-slapped, then hell mend you, 99.9% of the general populace have no clue as to the authenticity or otherwise of any fake available on these fora, leaving aside envisagavi's (GBGH) wunnerful Patek, EVERYONE would know that was a moody kettle, so if you put yourself in harm's way, som nam na :P

 

Fakes are simply for enjoyment, a visual visceral moment in time captured when you look at it, not for investment, either monetarily, emotionally or for the purpose of status, any investment of more than the generally accepted break-point of $300- 500 is extreme folly and brings to mind the old adage. " you CANNOT make a silk purse from a sow's ear ".

 

That this folly exists on these fora is undoubted, you only have to look at the frenzy of froth exhibited by the responders to a 7000 Euro folly on RG, whether it's $1500 or 7000 Euro, they're all sow's ears!

[prestigewatchco 2]

No Shakie give up any ideas of enough members being able to get a special watch made by this factory they are about the most unobliging crew you have ever met!

If you were buying a 100 watches and you wanted an extra 9 of a different watch they would not be guaranteed to sell them to you unless you bought 10. I have dealt with them for maybe 6-7 years and most likely buy 300-400 watches a year from them. But they are hard work to deal with and take forever to produce something they are not holding stock of.

This is another problem you would only really be able to offer what they had on hand so this would limit the market again. All in all I think there is a reason these watches are not being offered to the forums already. I can't in all honesty see it being a viable proposition for the forums . It works fine for the buyers that buy in 10's but until someone wants to invest a huge sum of money on holding stock I think these will remain the only people to buy them

[sharkie 0]

what are the chances of a small, small package containing a single watch being seized by customs? i thought customs don't give two sh1ts about small packages? especially with all the amount of shipping going on, and the limited customs labor force.. why give a hoot about a single-item containing small package. plus, couldn't whomever is selling these uber primo watches simply make a small price increase in each watch. that way, if the off chance that one (or maybe even two) get seized, they're still in the black (as opposed to the red). i mean, with these special items, just be extra careful and take every precaution.

 

There's a small market, TTK was offering solid 18k, yes, 18k cased Rollie Day Dates with gen Swiss ETa mov'ts way back in 2004, problem was Customs risk, if it gets seized who ponies up, unless you're hand carrying them to UK or elsewhere, shifting them thru' conventional DHL etc etc shipping only increases 'cost' or 'risk', he dropped the idea, for reasons of risk, customer dissatisfaction with minutiae, regulation problems, and the myriad of other problems that would inevitably manifest themselves with the increased expectations attached to higher value watches, there was a good market way back then, but that was at a time when there were significantly fewer 'high quality / accurate'reps than there are available now, JMO and his expressed at the time!

[andygt 0]

Agreed, Baldrick - I would think the majority of these uber reps end up in the inventory of moody dealers mixed in with their gens and maybe the odd opportunist on ebay. Given the outlay involved I'd imagine mostly the former.

The other thing worth considering is whether or not there is an acceptable regular priced rep of the watch in question, for a lot of the vintage watches the only avenue to go down is the expensive yuki/ndtrading/j&w route so if you can offer better for less then there is certainly a market for those too.

[sharkie 0]

i appreciate the response, robert. so then, i'm assuming you have many sources, do you know any that would take on what I said in post 31?

 

No Shakie give up any ideas of enough members being able to get a special watch made by this factory they are about the most unobliging crew you have ever met!

[andygt 0]

I would doubt the hassle involved in what you are proposing would be worth it, sharkie.

[graman 2]

I think spending more than $3 - $400 on a rep takes the fun out of collecting reps.

If you were really passionate about reps and watches, then ok...go for it.

If you have the money to burn.....go for it.

Most of us got in to reps because we couldn't afford or wouldn't pay for gens.

 

This gets us that little bit closer, and while I think they're likely to be lovely, I think it's getting out of hand.

Everyone loves the hunt of finding the "ultimate" version of their watch for $99 or $400.

Everyone loves great lume.

Everyone loves sapphire crystal with 78 ton of AR coating.

 

Can I afford to pay $1500 - $3k for a watch?

Nup....although I'd like to.

 

For some models, there will be a market.

 

For others, a waste of time.

 

Perhaps gathering support or pre-orders for a model and then doing the bulk buy is an option?

 

Personally, I'll stick to the hunt for the really fun reps that look 95% ok and don't break the bank.

 

:P

[Baldrick 1]

what are the chances of a small, small package containing a single watch being seized by customs? i thought customs don't give two sh1ts about small packages?

 

Your thinking is flawed, Customs seize quite a number of these items, add to that scenario, the fact that these items could not just be sent Registered Air Mail (no traceability) or EMS ( restricted declared value, as well as the necessity for full and honest transparency as to sender with all ID and paperwork required, otherwise no claim for lost items ).

 

The other alternatives DHL / UPS et al are usually linked to a bonded warehouse etc, which precludes their use ( VAT / Import taxes / Customs duty applied etc) so you're left with hand carry, not feasible financially with individual watches, therefore they need to be 'smuggled' en masse, if into the US, Rolex e:g, would have them confiscated, no more than 1x grey import is allowed, 2x imports and you're classified as a grey importer with all the financial penalties that Montres Rolex USA can and WILL enforce.

 

Stick to cheapies :P

 

Unless you're desperate for money, why would you need the hassle?

[Member X 91]

what are the chances of a small, small package containing a single watch being seized by customs? i thought customs don't give two sh1ts about small packages?

 

Your thinking is flawed, Customs seize quite a number of these items, add to that scenario, the fact that these items could not just be sent Registered Air Mail (no traceability) or EMS ( restricted declared value, as well as the necessity for full and honest transparency as to sender with all ID and paperwork required, otherwise no claim for lost items ).

 

The other alternatives DHL / UPS et al are usually linked to a bonded warehouse etc, which precludes their use ( VAT / Import taxes / Customs duty applied etc) so you're left with hand carry, not feasible financially with individual watches, therefore they need to be 'smuggled' en masse, if into the US, Rolex e:g, would have them confiscated, no more than 1x grey import is allowed, 2x imports and you're classified as a grey importer with all the financial penalties that Montres Rolex USA can and WILL enforce.

 

Stick to cheapies :P

 

Unless you're desperate for money, why would you need the hassle?

I think Luthier may disagree with you there lol - he's regularly going back with 6+ reps!

 

Unless you're talking about x number of identical watches?

[Baldrick 1]

I think Luthier may disagree with you there lol - he's regularly going back with 6+ reps!

 

Yeah, he's going from point A to point B, with a clutch of average priced reps, usually different brands, you try swanning in with a load of 18k DD's, remember you need to be lucky EVERY time. they only need to be lucky ONCE

[Member X 91]

lol

 

True, true...

[KBH 7]

I think there are several watches that you could sell 10 of in a heartbeat. Particularly the Rolex Daytonas, assuming they had a reliable genuine Swiss movement. I'd probably bite if they were that good.

 

And although I'm not a Panerai fan, I'm sure there are some models that would sell well enough, particularly on RG. It seems there are always a Panerai or two selling for over $2000.

[KinCaidk 0]

+1 on the daytonas. 850 bucks wouldn't be horrible for a nearly perfect rep. I wouldn't pay 1000 or above for a rep though.

 

I always set my max at 300 USD - but one or 2 reps could cost 850 or so..

[gB. 0]

If you are the type to take your fake to a horological show or show it to a dealer / reveal it on a gen forum and you get bitch-slapped, then hell mend you, 99.9% of the general populace have no clue as to the authenticity or otherwise of any fake available on these fora, leaving aside envisagavi's (GBGH) wunnerful Patek, EVERYONE would know that was a moody kettle, so if you put yourself in harm's way, som nam na

 

You mean this one...?

 

 

B)

[Baldrick 1]

Yeah, you still have it obviously, you 'went home' that day didn'cha !

 

Baldrick's choice of "Lemon of the Year', what were you fleeced for it again...err, sorry, how much did ya pay for it ?

[trailboss99 994]

Sure there is. Small but it's there. Especially for the Pams and the 'tona, look what sells on Da Geek.

I'd say some of the APs would also sell for 800-1200 dollars, folk spend more than that on a franken.

A couple of the IWC's too.

 

 

 

Col.

[Member X 91]

Mm, good point on the IWCs - if you could get the IWC Porto Chronos to come in under Concepta's franken prices (I believe $1100+ for gen hands, dial, movement) then you would likely get some good sales?

[AllergyDoc 40]

I would listen to the Bald One.

 

I think you could sell watches in that range, Robert. Not a lot but some. But the customs issues... Would you be willing to take the hit for confiscated watches? Seems it would suck all your profit out.

[mbjoer 0]

Yes thats fine with a Rollex submariner but what about $3000 for an AP that the gen costs $50000 or a Panerai 127 for $4000 that her gen costs $25000 so not really an option buying the gen for all models

 

Now that I have created my bulk collection I am beginning to look towards higher end watches.

 

As I am not in this game to sell any of them as Gens I could not justify more than a small percentage of the price for a Gen. My rule of thumb is 10% of Gen including all mods and shipping.

If the gen is a really nice Patek or AP and the fake is well made with full attention to details (hallmarks/strap/lume/waterproof, etc) the 10% could be in excess of $1,000.

 

It would still not be possible to have them serviced or fixed easily, so even if very well made the watch will still be a Rep.

 

If anyone is ready to pay more than 30% of Gen prices, I would start to question the motives.