Rolex Milgauss - What do you think

[Luthier 1]

I really think noneone has a point. There are different qualities of every thing we buy, from watches, to cars, to shoes, or whatever. If a watch costs $300 and the same seller has the same watch for $100, I too would think that there has to be some higher quality features other than the movement. There are different types of stainless steel bracelet (some hare crappy and shallow and others are solid and heavy), different types of crystal (from regular glass to sapphire) and I guess other features must be finished with better quality in a more expensive product.

 

I don't think he is crazy for thinking that... it is only human to think that way.

 

 

Like I said in another thread a few days ago, I got a gift in the form of a Rolex Subs with green bezel... well, it looks nasty, honestly. My friend didn't pay a lot of money (thank God) but that watch I have looks nothing like the ones some of you have from trusted dealers (those watches look a thousand times better). And my watch doesn't weigh much (empty links in the bracelet) and scratches easily (I guess some of your reps have sapphire glass).

 

So, most of the times in any deal of any kind more money should imply better quality. At least that is what I believe.

It's obvious, PGL. My point was - this guy will find 100 flaws even in best replica ever. And will complain.

Ofcourse, watches from Robert or Mary are far superior to watches from WE, but we're not talking about WE.

We buy good replicas from great dealers. But anyone, who is armed with 100X loupe, will find flaws even in best rep.

Guy just won't accept, that replica is just a replica, and no need to complain about microscopic flaws, otherwise he'll become paranoid, and all dealers will hate him.

Tons of examples.

[PGL 0]

I really think noneone has a point. There are different qualities of every thing we buy, from watches, to cars, to shoes, or whatever. If a watch costs $300 and the same seller has the same watch for $100, I too would think that there has to be some higher quality features other than the movement. There are different types of stainless steel bracelet (some hare crappy and shallow and others are solid and heavy), different types of crystal (from regular glass to sapphire) and I guess other features must be finished with better quality in a more expensive product.

 

I don't think he is crazy for thinking that... it is only human to think that way.

 

 

Like I said in another thread a few days ago, I got a gift in the form of a Rolex Subs with green bezel... well, it looks nasty, honestly. My friend didn't pay a lot of money (thank God) but that watch I have looks nothing like the ones some of you have from trusted dealers (those watches look a thousand times better). And my watch doesn't weigh much (empty links in the bracelet) and scratches easily (I guess some of your reps have sapphire glass).

 

So, most of the times in any deal of any kind more money should imply better quality. At least that is what I believe.

It's obvious, PGL. My point was - this guy will find 100 flaws even in best replica ever. And will complain.

Ofcourse, watches from Robert or Mary are far superior to watches from WE, but we're not talking about WE.

We buy good replicas from great dealers. But anyone, who is armed with 100X loupe, will find flaws even in best rep.

Guy just won't accept, that replica is just a replica, and no need to complain about microscopic flaws, otherwise he'll become paranoid, and all dealers will hate him.

Tons of examples.

 

 

Alright, I see your point now. I must have misunderstood what noneone was writing...

[noneone 0]

Hi Luthier,

 

I am not here to cause trouble or annoy trusted dealers.

 

In fact the watch that I posted pictures of is from one of the trusted dealers and at the top end of the replica range, yet I have seen on these very forums lower priced reps that to my untrained eye ‘look’ to be of higher quality.

 

My post was to seek advice on the pictures I was provided by the dealer. I also made some comments on what I thought the flaws were, and was wondering if others could see something I missed.

 

I don’t know who WE is, but the dealer I am using is supposed to be on par with Mary and Robert.

 

Maybe the problem is that due to my lack of experience of buying reps my expatiations are higher. But the reason I have so ‘high’ expectations is because of what I have seen on these forums.

 

I am not asking for a gen at a replica price, what I am asking for is the best replica available that I can look at and enjoy wearing for a long time to come.

Edited November 20, 2010 by noneone

[KBH 7]

Probably within a month of getting it you will decide you want/need a different rep and you'll be buying another and another. Then the "perfect" Milguass will sit in a drawer until you put it up for sale.

 

That's generally how this plays out.

 

I came on here to find a good Datejust and a Sub. Since then I've had a dozen Subs and built several Franken DJ's. And have bought and sold another 20 or so watches.

 

I admire your choice of Milguass. It's a very good rep. It's also a rep that should only be bought in the ETA/clone model since the 21j is known for it's "stuttering" seconds hand. But don't get too worked up over what you see in magnified pictures. Every watch I've ever bought, particularly the used gens I've picked up on eBay, are much better in person than what I expected from the pictures.

[Member X 91]

I can see both sides of the argument here.

 

I would perhaps suggest buying the cheaper rep Milguass with clone ETA because it still looks good - that will leave you with another $150-$200 to spend on another rep :)

[bimmerpilot 0]

PWC supposedly has the best Milguass. You might try him.

 

EDIT: Oops, see you already tried him. I guess he's already seen this thread.

 

[bimmerpilot 0]

Just send him email with only these words:

"Dear Robert, I would like to buy your Milgauss, please, send me payment instructions"

That's it, not even one word more, or you'll be on his "NO SALES TO THIS ANAL" list.

 

I ordered a Pam from Robert (it should arrive this week). I knew exactly what I wanted before contacting him, I asked him about pricing, he gave two options, I chose one, he sent me ordering instructions, I paid, Done!

 

 

and I would appreciate it if NO ONE irritates him until AFTER I order my Daytona.

 

Thank you.

[pollux1 3]

Personally I aim for 85-90% close to gen, anything better than that is a bonus.

[prestigewatchco 2]

well I can tell you honestly that the best factory making millguass make only 21j and Asian clone 2836 they don't offer a Gen 2836 ETA at all.

So this is obviously either retro fit or not from the best makers there are several makers we only deal with 2 one for the original milguass and another for the cheaper Bamford. But there are maybe 10 factories making them.

Unless a dealer is carrying stock of an item when they go to the market to find a watch it's difficult to always find the best factory version many wholesalers will stock only from one factory or 2 and if the best factory is a little more expensive they will always buy the cheaper as a rule and only buy the best factory when they have to. that said they will not of course tell the dealer this.

Usually the difference in the quality is between factories rather than between 21j and 2836 from same factory with usually only the movement being significantly different

[KBH 7]

Usually the difference in the quality is between factories rather than between 21j and 2836 from same factory with usually only the movement being significantly different

 

There you go. Words from the mouth of an expert. But I'm sure Robert will agree that the 21j does have a "stuttering" second hand problem on a lot of watches..

[noneone 0]

well I can tell you honestly that the best factory making millguass make only 21j and Asian clone 2836 they don't offer a Gen 2836 ETA at all.

So this is obviously either retro fit or not from the best makers there are several makers we only deal with 2 one for the original milguass and another for the cheaper Bamford. But there are maybe 10 factories making them.

Unless a dealer is carrying stock of an item when they go to the market to find a watch it's difficult to always find the best factory version many wholesalers will stock only from one factory or 2 and if the best factory is a little more expensive they will always buy the cheaper as a rule and only buy the best factory when they have to. that said they will not of course tell the dealer this.

Usually the difference in the quality is between factories rather than between 21j and 2836 from same factory with usually only the movement being significantly different

 

Robert,

 

Thanks for your response. It is as I thought that the quality of the replica would differ from different factories.

 

I tried to contact you but never received a response. If your Milgauss watches are still available I would like to buy the upgraded Asian Clone 2836 25J versions in all three colours (White, Black and GV).

 

Could you let me know if you till have this available and more importantly how to pay.

[KBH 7]

Just to save you a headache later on. Go to Robert's section and read how to order and how to pay. All the information you need is there.

[andygt 0]

The ROLEXROLEX engraving hardly ever lines up properly on any reps but its not that noticable anyway.

The lume looks ok to me but the coronet on the clasp is wonky and not what I'd call a common flaw.

Think you guys are being a bit hard on the OP, better he asks opinions on the QC pics than start a thread demanding the dealer be burned at the stake later on.

Also agree $350 is too much.

[Silverspeed 10]

the lume on Roberts $99 version was very nice...as was the whole watch

 

[prestigewatchco 2]

Only GV is available direct from factory with 2836 clone white dial and black dial need to be assembled to order and will be more expensive closer to $200

[noneone 0]

Only GV is available direct from factory with 2836 clone white dial and black dial need to be assembled to order and will be more expensive closer to $200

 

Hi Robert,

 

PM Sent ...

[noneone 0]

Does anyone know if it is possible to rotate the dial slightly on the Rolex Milgauss?

[KBH 7]

Does anyone know if it is possible to rotate the dial slightly on the Rolex Milgauss?

 

Not really. The dial is firmly mounted on the movement and the movement has a very minimal amount of play because of the stem.

[Eiderdaus 0]

Hi,

 

i think sometimes it might be a bit confusing and not satisfying for a new guy to this fora. i got your point that you are willing to pay "more" money for better quality and that you want have a remarkable classification as indicator for quality. from my experience, as i am always looking for the "perfect" sub 16610 it´s tough to say. 70% of the fora (i might make a big mistake now and people will hate me) will always reply:" talk to mary she will organize it" doesn´t matter what question you asked, they just want to be helpful but never had a gen in their hands or are not interested in 1:1 accuracy, they just want to have a cheap expensive looking watch to show off. that´s ok but not helpful in your matter.

but that´s not the point. the flaws that you have discovered might not be visible for others or only visible by magnification but if it disturbs you that it´s totally ok from my point of view because you need to be happy with the watch.

it´s pretty tough to find the "top notch" rep maybe because it has not build . my way is always that i collect infos on gen and compared this to the dealers pics. it is important to me that the pics are from exactly that watch that they offer (most of the times i guess it´s not).

then i see and ask what mods others have done and what is possible. the obvious flaws are sometimes easy to fix but if you digg deeper you will find out that some flaws you will not be able to eliminate as long as you don´t buy a gen.

the prices from reps are sometimes not explicable to me as i discussed this a lot of time. building a watch correct (shape, sizing) doesn´t cost more than building it wrong. material is a valuable aspect but when we are talking about SS all have the same price. no one is using 904f steel all using 316F or L(yeah i know you can work on the steel i know and do), and the CAD machines of today are really capable to measure the exact sizes and shapes, so why are there still so many bad shapes out there ? i would understand that they have different prices if they would be more accurate. the only argument for higher prices would be movement and the accuracy of dial and hands. even something easy like proper lume they are not able to provide

i would understand the business case like

 

a) bad rep 50$

:yoda: medium rep 100$

c) high rep 200$

d) most accurate (exact size, shape, details, lume, very good material) 300-500 (depending on the watch)

e) 1:1 would be difficult as they would need to take the same materials so it might cost you 1/3 of the gen.(didn´t reckon the movement)

 

but currently only the movement makes the difference.what i learned is that it doesn´t matter what watch you take, you will always find some flaws (yes some will say because they are reps) but i see it from that point that the manufacturers not seemed to be interested in to build one (exact shape or size).

you have very experienced modders that bring some moddels to a very good point but to be honest, i like the watches from BK but since i got one to me there is no argument for that price (another discussion). compared this to a gen you are pretty close and i would say that you would not see if you don´t open the back.

the question why don´t you buy a gen is ridiculous then we are here in a rep fora.

 

but back to the point :yoda: i think it´s totally ok to ask for the top notch rep and some reactions showed to you i got before. it will always be like this.

i bought tools and startet modding myself, gave it up due to 2 left hands and impatience and let now other do the work for money. and i focused on models that are more easy to mod. i own a gen 16610LN but i am very happy with the WM9 v3LV (not 100% with the insert color) and currently i let a 16610 WM9 v1 mod to more accuracy. my PAM 111h is currently away for modding too but to be clear if you decide to let the moddings done you can reckon the same price for the watch as for the mods (or even more).

done this with a SD as well. i was thinking , hey take the cheap movement it doesn´t matter, but then i realised how good that watch is (waterproof otb) and then i was thinking about giving it a new movement, a new insert and new lume. bought the faulty insert from watchmaterial (the pearl is great but not on the right spot, no small triangle under the pearl visible), meanwhile the 2nd movement is in, relumed with same rolex material (not c1 or c3 in layer), new crown and tube and in total i reached 350€ now but bought it for 160$. thinking about that others sell highly modded SD for more than 500$ without luming i think i have done a good deal. but this was just an example.

 

i realised i writting to much....sorry see ypou and good luck with your project

[KBH 7]

There are really very few models that are actually considered Super-reps. And it takes a lot a reading on different forums to find them. From Rolex the only thing that comes to mind is the original Explorer, possibly the SSD v2 and and maybe the WM9 Subs which in my opinion are only close. The rest of the Rolex line takes work and a lot of money to achieve near perfection.

 

So no matter how much you all think that for $300 you should be able to buy a 1:1 of anything, you're just pissing in the wind. And even if you buy a Super-rep you'll always find a piece of lint on the dial or a lume dot not quite perfect or some other minor imperfection.

[Eiderdaus 0]

that is nothing different what i am saying kbh but everyone must decide if he can live with it or not and i said nothing contravers to the prices : 1:1 not for 300$.

 

btw: who offers a SSDv2 atm ? Go ask mary ;-) ?

[andygt 0]

I wouldn't call the SSD a super rep personally as the lack of rehaut thickness is pretty obvious to me.

[prestigewatchco 2]

Pissing in the wind is right KBH I have never seen a rep I wouldn't recognise as a rep in a couple of minutes .

Regardless of how much money and Gen parts had been fitted to it.

People have Gen dials and gen movements in rep cases owing in the case of 111 about 2 3rds the price of a used Gen absolute madness when a $200 rep would fool the same people into thinking it's gen

 

It is possible to answer noneones question to find a much better milguass than the one you have posted with lined up R&X but even then there will be flaws compared to Gen

[KBH 7]

Eiderdaus,

 

No more SSD's unless you find one in member sales.

 

Andy,

 

I'm not sure what you mean about lack of rehaut thickness. What I've seen is the gen is slightly more tubular and the SSD slightly more conical. Seems like the actual height is close. Maybe the SSD is a little taller?

 

And Robert,

 

Do you think you could spot a franken DJ with gen case, gen bracelet, gen dial. Only the movement changed? Or is that no longer a rep but a gen with the movement swapped?

[andygt 0]

Only if he has X-ray vision!

 

As for the SSD compare the thick almost straight rehaut on the gen:

 

 

To the more angled thinner rehaut on the SSD: