Jump to content
UK Watch Services

My opinions on various reps - a watchmakers point of view.

Recommended Posts

UK Watch Services

Just posted this over at my original home of RWI but thought Id share it here too, you guys have been just as good to me,

 

 

 

 

I have a spare hour or two tonight so I thought id post some of my opinions on the most popular reps that I see across my bench. Ive spent two years now servicing reps from RWI and RWG and would like to think I have built up a fairly reasonable knowledge of them. Some are general views on movements and movements in certain reps. Im not intending this as any sort of guide but more a rough idea of whats going on in some of the reps. Im not taking into account accuracy/ closest to gen etc, its literally just a view of the watch itself.

 

 

First up the Rolex reps such as Sub, DSSD with standard Asian 2824/36.

 

Generally I find these amongst the easiest of the reps to work on. The Asian clone is pretty decent once serviced and the only real issue (if you can even call it that) to contend with is the fact there is a date overlay on the stock date wheel. This isn't really an issue at all unless the date overlay has an issue and needs to be re fitted or a new one is needed. I used to offer date wheel overlay changes but its such a pain and so time consuming I will only do it vary rarely now should a situation arise where it needs to be done. Other than the overlays they are a good solid rep for the most part. They mostly waterproof too and need little doing to them in this regard.

 

 

Next the Omega Planet ocean reps - non chrono.

 

I would say these are amongst the worst of the reps and for a 2824/36 they can be a real pain. If they have been bought with a gen ETA in they are even worse. The Asian clones aren't too bad, as before in the rolex's the movement is pretty decent once serviced. The problem with the ten ETA ones is the condition of them, especially under the dial. Most of these I've seen have display backs so the makers do a half decent job of making them look decent from the back. I say half decent because if you look at them with an eye glass you can still see dirt etc and incorrect or lack of oiling. Under the dial on the gen ETA on these reps is often pretty bad. Usually they have many rusty parts and I'm almost certain some are made up from ETA and rep parts. A Liquid metal planet ocean is one of the only reps I couldn't fix - I needed to change parts but this caused more issues with them working together properly and in the end I gave up as I just couldn't work out what was going on with it. Whilst the gen ETA is particularly bad, I dont overly like the Asian clone version either but if I was going to buy one, it would definitely be Asian. The same issues both share is lack of clearance for the hands from the dial - often requiring the hands to be bent upwards much more than would be ideal, and the fact the dials generally dont attach to the movement in the usual way but attach to the movement ring. Not a biggie but its just not as good as securing to the movement itself. I also often see more of these with stripped crown/tube than any other rep.

 

 

panerais with 6497/8

 

Not much to say about these really, bullet proof! They do have the occasional problem but they are a simple, well made decent movement. Even the Asian ones are good and in my opinion its decent enough and I wouldn't bother swapping it for ETA if you were thinking of doing it.

 

 

Panerais with 7750 non chrono

 

These are also half decent. The issues ones are the ones with the faux bridge put over the 7750 movement. The normal issue is with the rotor. Due to this bridge the rotor no longer screws to the movement and I've had a couple of issues with the rotor working loose. The movement itself is fine once serviced and I would like to think would go for a good few years before requiring any further intervention.

 

 

7750's with chrono function, seconds @ 9.

 

I get quite a few questions about these and heres my view on them. They are a decent movement, even more so for the money they cost. The issue with them is they are also the dirtiest and incorrectly oiled of all the reps I see. I dont really know why this is but they are never done well. Sometimes I am amazed they have even run at all before they arrive on my bench. My honest opinion is if you are buying one of these you really should factor into the price the cost of having it serviced or buy it with a view that it might only last a few months and you will need to buy a new one or have it serviced then. I know theres exceptions to the rule and some people have bough asian 7750's that have run out of the box for years, but then someone has to win the lottery! In honesty there probably is a fair few that last quite a while but its all down to luck I can assure you. The movement as is from the factory is poor at best. One other issue to mention is hands, on quite a regular basis I have to do something with these. In an ideal world I would just fit new ones but unfortunately I dont have a supply of rep hands on tap so have to make do with what I have. Very occasionally the hands cant be sourced and the only option is a new one although this is rare. The main issue being the center seconds. The hammer slams down onto then heart pretty hard when you reset these and if the hand isn't fitted tight to the pinion the possibility of it slipping is high. This is often what has happens if your hand isn't resetting to zero anymore. Even once serviced I recommend using the chrono sparingly if at all, used as a watch to tell the time alone it should be a fairly good time keeper.

 

 

Watches with DG 2813's or variants - often referred to as 21j.

 

These are what they are, there often cheap and you get what you pay for. The watch may look decent but I really dont like this movement. Its not particularly nice to work on and if you buy one of these and it breaks, I see your only real option is to buy a new watch. I have done movement exchanges on these but heres the problem - the movements I get in from the supplier are often no better than used in the reps to start with and the cost makes it barely worth doing. Also because the movement I would get from the supplier is likely to need servicing I cant offer any guarantee on it. Ideally I would service the movement I get from the supplier before fitting it but then the cost would be even more ridiculous. I could just do the movement exchange as I get it from the supplier but I dont like not being able to offer a guarantee, if i work on a watch I want to know its leaving me the best it can be.

 

 

 

I think That will do for now. In summary with 2824/36 asian or gen ETA Id go for Asian. Its pot luck what you get if you buy gen ETA from a rep dealer. If you really want ETA you would be much better off sourcing an ETA separately and buy the Asian ETA.

 

 

7750's, decent once serviced. If you buy it and wear it as is you are asking for problems. If you get a year or 2 then thats very good. Its down to the individual then what you do, buy a new one or sort your broken one. My opinion is to have it serviced early doors but I'm a watchmaker and I dont like dirty movements that are either dry of oil or if they are oiled its in all the wrong places.

 

 

Dg 2813, buy it, wear it, if it breaks buy a new one.

 

 

Cheers and thanks for reading, hope this may be useful for someone

 

 

Alex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Genius

Pretty much what I thought but nice to hear it from a watchmaker worth experience working on these.

 

I knew Swiss eta movements were basically pot luck in reps but surprised to hear you.actually get rusty parts!

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Left Coast Guy

Holy shit that is spot on!!

 

I cannot tell you how good this makes me feel to read some of your comments, as I've been in the same boat (re: POs and 7750 hands) and its a weight off my mind to hear that its not just me that has struggled with these issues! For the most part, my projects have gone well, but the POs and PAM 7750 (7753 really) have been nightmarish.

 

Again, thanks for your time.

 

Any thoughts on the Miyota reps that are floating about these days?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike on a bike

Alex if you do not mind gonna post over by me (rwg net.) for my guys to read.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
UK Watch Services

No problem at all, post away :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BC1221

pretty much what i expected too.

 

 

great post!

 

thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShovelnTC

Thanks for taking the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
g.man

Very interesting read that basically confirms what I've always believed about the various movements you mention.

 

should be a sticky

 

g.man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BigBuys

Thanks for putting out the effort to summarize for us! This seems spot on with my observations on movement issues with the exception of Swiss movements of earlier M2M pickups, e.g. Breitlings, that run like electric motors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gazzla

Sticky this Mother!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baxter

Great post Alex + 1 on the sticky :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
omegex

Alex

 

Thank you for this excellent summarisation - you've certainly educated this noob to the rep world.

 

And definitely +2 to make it a sticky.

Edited by omegex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RussP

Thank you for sparing your time and thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nev848

Hi Alex. Very interesting and especially the bit on the Asian over Swiss ETA. I have always been sceptical on whether you would ever get a Gen Swiss in a watch out if China, and if so what it would really be like.

 

Thanks for taking the time and effort in sharing this and I hope many Noobs ready up on the 7750 movement.

 

Cheers Nev

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pickledbeetroot

That's a refreshing good honest post. A must read for anybody looking for their next watch.

 

Well done Alex :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikohublot

Hello , nice Information ! What can you say about tourbys? Im a Little Bit worried if they broke, where to go for repair :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
corsa

Excellent. Maybe a Sticky that we can update as info comes in?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rusty peters

Fantastic post. Thanks! I am shocked to hear that the A7750 non chrono is stout. It seems like we are always reading horror stories about a PAM that quit and an A7750 is usually at the heart of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
rusty peters

How about the Seconds @12 AP Roos? I am guessing they are a mess. Your knowledge makes it even harder to digest the recent price increases that we are seeing. We are getting what we are paying for with cheap watches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bash64

Great post! Thank you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Del

Thanks Alex, very interesting and informative post. :thumbsup2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Del

Oh, and I've pinned this thread too. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Amit

Thanks Alex this is really useful to everyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mike on a bike

No problem at all, post away :)

Thanks Alex may have to pin this at home also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dendo

Thanks Alex - good citizenship mate!

 

Confirms a lot of what all of us have been struggling with - chrono hands slipping - dodgy date wheels - dying movements and I love the advice on throwing away broken 21J watches....trying to change the movements is complex and a waste of time.

 

im%20Not%20Worthy.gifim%20Not%20Worthy.gifim%20Not%20Worthy.gifim%20Not%20Worthy.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×