Beware of the Z2 aka POS "fake eta clone" aka "new breed high beat 2813" aka "Shanghai Eta 2836 copy" movement!

[GenTLe 1,497]

This is just a refresh for those who may have forgot about this problem...

Some of the pics have been taken one year ago from SSteel, some I've found on the web and modified later.

 

Recently I purchased a watch from one of our member (IMPORTANT: I'm sure he didn't know about the fact that the movement was different than the one advertised by the TD), knowing it had some problem and thinking that I could have fixed it, supposing it to be an Asian Eta clone.

 

Unfortunately, when I got it in my hands it turned out that it was not an Eta clone but something that looks similar but it's one of the most terrible movement I've happen to see.

The "infamous" Z2 clone-of-clone, also called "new breed high beat asian", also called PieceOfShit (POS) movement. Real code is "SB1HRZ2":

 

It was in this watch, misrepresented by one of our TD: http://www.tswatchlt...c-ss-a2836.html

 

Well guys, STAY AWAY from that movement. It is really as bad as it can be. The escapement works fine (it can keep good time), but the rest is a disaster, starting from the terrible finishing of it.

 

Just a quick refresh to see how you can spot it in the following pictures. Note that what I write about ETA is valid also for the real Asian ETA Clones like the Seagull ST21

 

1) the POS dial is kept in place by screws and not by hooks like in gen/asian ETA:

h

 

 

 

2) the click is very different and really as bad as it can be: on the POS is on the ratchet wheel, on the ETA is on crown wheel:

 

 

 

3) the autowind bridge is also different: on the POS all the reverse wheels are not kept in place by a lower bridge, while they are on ETA

 

 

The first 2 points are the most recognizable out of the movement.

 

Look carefully and you may spot some detail that will let you discover the POS signs, like here:

 

 

Note that you can't just swap an asian ETA there because:

• hour or minute (don't remember) hand will be loose on the ETA
  
• date wheel is totally different and will not fit the ETA
  

Also note that there are NO spare parts for it (and being a POS it doesn't even deserve them...) and also simple parts like the stem are not replaceable with ETA ones.

[ad6904 0]

Thank you

[Pihlippe 1,259]

Thanks for the useful information

[black263 228]

So not only can't we believe the dealers when they say that the movement is a gen ETA, but now we even have problems with a bad copy of an Asian replica movement. Sheesh..

[Chavezzito 121]

Basically, if your watch starts acting like this:

 

https://vimeo.com/133146031

 

You are about to discover that you have this movement.

 

Sorry Gentle...feel terrible :(

[GenTLe 1,497]

Basically, if your watch starts acting like this:

 

https://vimeo.com/133146031

 

You are about to discover that you have this movement.

 

Sorry Gentle...feel terrible :(

 

 

Not only: the Z2 has been reported to have problems in the keyless (quick date change become impossible, rough crown etc).

 

Chavez, it's ok, if I have asked you some better pics of the movement I'd not have got it.

Eventually we can split the loss half&half and I may send it back to you so that you can try to sell for example the bracelet or the case... Up to you

[GenTLe 1,497]

So not only can't we believe the dealers when they say that the movement is a gen ETA, but now we even have problems with a bad copy of an Asian replica movement. Sheesh..

 

In general they are reported: if you read "new breed high beat", "new breed high beat 2813" or "Shanghai 2836 copy" be very careful. But in general it's always good to check carefully the movement picture.

[greg_r 81]

So not only can't we believe the dealers when they say that the movement is a gen ETA, but now we even have problems with a bad copy of an Asian replica movement. Sheesh..

 

Part of the problem is that not that many of the dealers really know about this stuff. They advertise based on what the factories tell them - and the factories lie. Hell, the factories sometimes change spec when they run out of a component without telling anyone about it. Even the dealers who know their stuff will not necessarily be 100% up to date on anything other than the models they're selling frequently - if you want the best chance of good info, though, stick to the smaller dealers such as MR, Toro & one or two others of that ilk who at least know the good movements from the bad.

 

I've been collecting reps for 15 years and, sadly, this kinda thing has always been the case. This is the reason why it's always been important to do your research FIRST.

[rusty peters 0]

It looks like I will stick with my Seconds@6 A7750s if I want reliability!

 

I appreciate the write up. I think GenTLe needs a gold star for the day, based on the way he is dealing with his m2m sale.

[BobbyBeat 0]

Thanks! I have a sub with this and the crown is very crunchy and I suspect movement is on it's last legs. Any recommendations for a replacement movement for a weekend project?

[GenTLe 1,497]

Thanks! I have a sub with this and the crown is very crunchy and I suspect movement is on it's last legs. Any recommendations for a replacement movement for a weekend project?

 

Not really: a real asian Eta will fit in the case BUT :

- hour or minute hand (don't remember) has to be tighten because it will be loose on the real ETA clone

- you need to get another date wheel overlay because you can't swap the date wheel with Rolex fonts from the Z2 to the Eta clone

- I'm not sure if the Z2 and Eta clone have the same stem diameter, and in case it's different you must find the ETA stem that will fit in the crown (because Z2 stem will not work on Eta clone so you need to replace it too).

[Harkin Banks 1]

Got this movement in my Ali BB and it was remarkably accurate. I was ok with it for the price I paid but then I went and swapped in the longer ETA hands and snapped the stem while I was doing the work, ouch! Now I have a useless movement that I cannot source a new stem. It seems replacement parts are impossible to find.

[BobbyBeat 0]

Thanks for the tips. I'll have to pick through my bench inventory and see what I have for the accommodation of a real asia eta. As for the movement itself, I'll head for Ofrei.

 

Or....I could simply buy another.Sure do "need" a no date.

[Haltec 0]

THX GenTLe!!!

 

Great post!!!

 

 

[hushhush 0]

Thank you for your write up!

[g.man 0]

Great information in this post. Surely worth a sticky?

[GenTLe 1,497]

Beware again: these new products from H factory use that POS movement again.

Why the heck... Just to gain 20$ more? They will ruin them selves with this shit...

 

http://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1688

[KeNnY 29]

Thanks mate for the information, and also that you provided it for the others.

I can add some info with these 25J lookalikes Clones movements.

 

I can agree, the Z2 is really POS.

 

BUT

 

there is one bright thing.

 

IF

 

the dealers sells the watch with the "asian clone 25J" movement AKA Z2, for much less compared to the Clone ETA and will state that it is low quality movement with similar materials like DG2813, not the ETA version.

 

there is one bright thing on this cheaper version of the watch watch. *** Etleast on the version of Asian clone 25J - Z2 look a like Eta I had here for movement swap. ***

 

it was an Carbon AP diver, sold as an Clone ETA, but it had this type of Z2 movement.

 

The hands were compatible with Clone ETA and so was the Dial. All I needed to change was to find an black datewheel and replace the stem for ETA version, as the stock was 21J type DG2813 looks like. Yes the datewheel is completely different. The hands on my model, including second hand fit on the clone eta .

 

So this means, you can just swap it for regular Clone or Swiss or SW200 Eta movement, and all you need is just stem , and if applicable, correct datewheel (special watches with black datewheel and when no datewheel overlay is used) as the Z2 should have same dimensions as Eta. But depend how many of this versions of cheaper alternatives of clones will be made. On the version of POS movement I have replaced, the hands were compatible with ETA. But as with all reps, everything can have bigger or smaller tolerances, so best to be safe, If you want to swap your movement for SWISS, get a clone ETA and then swap, to be safe that you will get compatible hands, dial, and datewheel.

 

Here are photos of POS movement

 

 

** Updated statement and added pics

[BadPickle 2,738]

Thanks mate for the information you provided for the others.

 

I can agree, the Z2 is really POS.

 

BUT

 

there is one bright thing.

 

IF

 

the dealers sells the watch with the "21J" movement AKA Z2, for much less compared to the Clone ETA

 

there is one bright thing on this watch.

 

The hands are compatible with Clone ETA and so is the Dial !

 

So this means, you can just swap it for regular Clone or Swiss or SW200 Eta movement, and all you need is just stem , and if applicable, correct datewheel (special watches with black datewheel and when no datewheel overlay is used) as the Z2 should have same dimensions as Eta.

 

 

HHHMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

 

There seems to be a difference of opinion here, one member says the hands will fit, one member says the hands won't fit when swapping the movement for a regular Chinese clone.

 

But hey, that seems to be the way here, there's always some fucker who thinks they know it all and is prepared to dish out shitty half baked knowledge, generally in a crappy effort to make a name for themselves.

 

So what gives fella's??? Who's "billy bullshit" in this thread??

 

I know who my money is on

[Kcore 0]

Thanks mate for the information you provided for the others.

 

I can agree, the Z2 is really POS.

 

BUT

 

there is one bright thing.

 

IF

 

the dealers sells the watch with the "21J" movement AKA Z2, for much less compared to the Clone ETA

 

there is one bright thing on this watch.

 

The hands are compatible with Clone ETA and so is the Dial !

 

So this means, you can just swap it for regular Clone or Swiss or SW200 Eta movement, and all you need is just stem , and if applicable, correct datewheel (special watches with black datewheel and when no datewheel overlay is used) as the Z2 should have same dimensions as Eta.

 

 

HHHMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

 

There seems to be a difference of opinion here, one member says the hands will fit, one member says the hands won't fit when swapping the movement for a regular Chinese clone.

 

But hey, that seems to be the way here, there's always some fucker who thinks they know it all and is prepared to dish out shitty half baked knowledge, generally in a crappy effort to make a name for themselves.

 

So what gives fella's??? Who's "billy bullshit" in this thread??

 

I know who my money is on

Nice way to pose a simple question, play member against member

[hendrik 0]

O.M.G. :suck:

[Cubic Hare 494]

Thanks for this Alex, I wondered about my cheapy Black Bay from Henry if it was ETA Clone or a POS. Looking at this it's an ETA Clone..

 

Cheers

[BadPickle 2,738]

Thanks mate for the information you provided for the others.

 

I can agree, the Z2 is really POS.

 

BUT

 

there is one bright thing.

 

IF

 

the dealers sells the watch with the "21J" movement AKA Z2, for much less compared to the Clone ETA

 

there is one bright thing on this watch.

 

The hands are compatible with Clone ETA and so is the Dial !

 

So this means, you can just swap it for regular Clone or Swiss or SW200 Eta movement, and all you need is just stem , and if applicable, correct datewheel (special watches with black datewheel and when no datewheel overlay is used) as the Z2 should have same dimensions as Eta.

 

 

HHHMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

 

There seems to be a difference of opinion here, one member says the hands will fit, one member says the hands won't fit when swapping the movement for a regular Chinese clone.

 

But hey, that seems to be the way here, there's always some fucker who thinks they know it all and is prepared to dish out shitty half baked knowledge, generally in a crappy effort to make a name for themselves.

 

So what gives fella's??? Who's "billy bullshit" in this thread??

 

I know who my money is on

Nice way to pose a simple question, play member against member

 

Just pointing out the facts, both members are bold enough to make the statements, both should be more than capable to back them up too. Where's the problem in that??

 

Give your best mate sSTEAL a call, maybe he can help too.

[Kcore 0]

Stew, you're just a duche that enjoys causing trouble, plain and simple. Some enjoy your clown act but most realize you're just a duche.

 

[plankton 1]

Good thread, thanks.