Waterproof or not?: Guide to helping your reps survive the drink!

[gioarmani 2]

Since seeing a great deal of posts over time regarding this issue, here's a bit of a layman's tutorial on how to help waterproof your watches. :(

 

 

Contrary to popular belief, these rep watches are more waterproof than they're given credit for--the sports models, mind you--not the more refined "banker's" watches like Vacheron Constantin, Patek, etc. It's worth the extra $15, or whatever your area watch repair shops currently charge to have it pressure tested (if you're state-side, google the stores Fast Fix, Precision Time, etc.--they test any watch on site, for cheap--Precision Time even uses the good 6-10 ATM vacuum tester, not the Bergeon water one).

 

I've yet to have one of my own pieces (or one I've tested for somebody else) that failed waterproofing, and living on the water in Florida, I swim & shower in all of mine, constantly. There's nothing I can think of more horologically absurd looking than the guys with the multi-thousand dollar sports watches who take them off before stepping into the pool. Genuine or not, nothing screams "fake" faster than a diving watch that can't get wet...

 

I've always tried to do my homework to make sure the reps I purchased were well researched (i.e. closest to gen as I could get), and even went through good measure to modify them even more so--including religiously re-greasing & testing my watches a minimum of twice a year simply so that I can swim and dive in them...without worry.

 

 

 

Some examples of what's possible to achieve with proper treatment:

 

My SS Sub 16610 always tested solid to 6 ATMs & was swam in chlorine pools regularly.

 

 

 

 

My 16610 LV tested the same and hit both the pool and the ocean for snorkeling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My SMP chrono tested to 10 ATMs & also went down to nearly 100 ft, and was in the pool on almost a daily basis.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My PAM 051 also tested to 6 ATMs and was also in the pool almost every day I had it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My SSD V2 tested to 6 ATMs but for some reason it never managed to see anything more than the inside of a shower.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My DSSD V3 tested to 10 ATMs as well.

 

 

 

 

 

My V5 also tested to 10 ATMs and has been down to around 80 feet; it also sees daily showers and the occasional lap swim.

 

 

 

 

 

Keep in mind--as stated earlier--these have all been treated with silicon grease and sealed up tighter than a crab's ass. I would NEVER take a rep straight from the box into the water. Never. I don't care if you actually paid extra for your dealer to supposedly "waterproof" the piece for you; I can guarantee you through personal experience it didn't happen. QC is simply non-existent for reps when it comes to water-damage--loose case-backs, incorrectly seated crystal gaskets, no grease on the O-rings, etc.

 

The only pieces I've ever had that didn't hit the water were my Presidential, the DateJust, and my 116520.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And they were all tested, and my smith didn't exactly say they completely failed, but did say he "wouldn't trust them". Not having a triple-lock crown is reason enough to stay out of the drink (i.e. Datejusts, DayDates, etc.) The Daytona I never took swimming as I was paranoid about how tight the pushers were seated.

 

That being said, metal on metal is impossible to water-proof; it's all about the O-rings & gaskets. And the more points of entry you have to a watch--HEVs, chrono-pushers, crystals, casebacks, etc.--the more possibilities you have for leakage.

 

 

Short story:

 

All three parts of the triple-lock system (non-Rolex models will probably only have two of the following three) and case-back will need to be greased:

 

 

 

 

 

1) The crown's inside gasket

2) the tube's outer gasket, and

3) the tube's inner gasket

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you have silicon grease, at least apply some to the back gasket & tube gaskets if you can't get it pressure tested. This is the trick to water-tightness; well lubricated gaskets. It's actually the rubber that seals the watch--metal on metal does absolutely nothing for waterproofing. Also make sure the crown is screwed down tight (not too tight--as in not wrenching it down with all your might), and make sure the caseback is on tight as well. No offense to anyone who's tried, but please don't try those ridiculous homemade pressure tests like dropping your rep in a glass of hot water looking for bubbles...

 

*sigh*

 

No need to fear the anti-rep wrath of an AD either--go to your local el-cheapo watch or jewelry repair store/kiosk; almost all have pressure testers for watches and generally charge between $10-$20 dollars to test it. I can't stress enough how important this is if you want proof-positive assurance that your piece is now sealed properly. And a $15 test is a lot cheaper than a movement overhaul.

 

 

 

And the not-so-short story:

 

If you want to go the full monty and seal your fake HEV from the inside and completely mod out the watch, check the DSSD mod-tutorial hyperlinks in my signature (links at the end of my post in yellow). If you only want to seal the HEV & grease it, then here it is...

 

Buy some two-ply marine waterproofing epoxy (colors and brands will vary)

 

 

 

 

 

Remove your case-back and crown--since there is no 36.5mm die on the open market until 2010, the DSSDs require an adjustable case-back wrench (easily and inexpensively found on Amazon or eBay)

 

 

 

 

 

Regular 40mm Rolex cases will simply take a normal 29.5 mm die

 

 

 

 

Release the crown by GENTLY depressing this button with nothing smaller than a 1.1mm flathead screwdriver--pull the crown out from the time-set position while depressing the release button--take care to NOT push the release all the down, unless you like rebuilding keyless works or paying someone else to do it.

 

 

 

 

Remove the screws holding the movement and set the movement aside.

 

Mix a small amount of equal portions of the epoxy

 

 

 

 

 

With a sharp point, apply enough to fill the HEV's hole, and just slightly past the hole to insure against seepage

 

 

 

 

Allow this to completely cure before putting the movement back in--drying time will vary from hours to overnight, depending on brand.

 

After putting the movement back in, be sure to grease the case-back gasket:

 

 

 

And all three parts of the triple-lock system (non-Rolex models will probably only have two of the following three):

 

1) The crown's inside gasket

2) the tube's outer gasket, and

3) the tube's inner gasket

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now, simply reinsert the crown and tighten down the case-back. Your watch should now be tighter than a Neverland Ranch visitor.

....

 

However, as people often do, if you do wind up swimming or even showering in the watch without greasing it, and it does wind up fogging under the crystal, it's leaking--IMMEDIATELY remove the case-back, and pull the crown all the way out to the time-set position (this will also stop the movement from running on those movements with hacking features--2836-2, 7750s, etc.). Find a bucket of Damp-rid (Calcium Chloride):

 

 

 

 

 

...and place the watch inside as soon as you can. Open the package, seal the watch inside with the lid, and leave it overnight; it will completely remove any moisture in the watch. Of course, because of the leakage, you'll eventually have to find someone to oil the watch. Light, non-salt water leaks aren't too serious, but for longevity's sake, they'll probably need an oiling sooner than they would without a leak

 

http://www.damprid.com/

 

NOTE:

 

On the subject, there's sort of a catch-22 to water leakage...

 

In a swimming pool or spa, you're in contact with chlorine, which shrinks gaskets and could lead to leaking (rare, and usually if it's been a while since the gaskets were greased); but chlorine water won't rust or completely destroy the movement like salt-water will. But with swimming in the ocean there's obviously no chlorine, so the salt-water is fine on the gaskets, but salt-water completely destroys movements. So your piece might be water-tight from the box, but please grease it first, because if it leaks, it's damned if you do & damned if you don't.

 

It only takes a few minutes; then you can pay a visit to your local watch repair shop and they should be able to test it for you for about $15. It only takes five minutes and will save you hundreds of dollars/pounds/Euros/Yuan/Yen.

 

 

 

Hope this helps you take a bit of weight off your shoulders and maybe procure a well-deserved dip, as well (I hope it's been entertaining at the very least).

 

Good luck, and take care!

[gioarmani 2]

Some more really, really interesting facts that will help you fall asleep faster tonight...

 

 

 

 

 

This watch tested to a minimum of 330 feet below sea level. And even though I don't know of anyone with a machine that goes beyond 10 ATMs, I seriously think this rep--after mods--could easily go further than 330 ft.

 

(To extrapolate, the marine epoxy I used is guaranteed to withstand 2000psi of pressure, and each ATM is aprox 14 psi. So is this stuff really good to 2000 psi, or 142 ATMs, or 4600 feet?...hmmm...)

 

In other words, one ATM is equal to approximately 14 pounds per square inch (equivalent to the surface pressure at sea level; you're already at 2 ATMs by simply sticking your arm in the pool), and that the pressure changes for "atmospheres" (ATM) that occur at an intervals of 1 ATM of change per every additional 33 ft of depth. So, at surface level you're already at 33 ft worth of pressure, or 1 ATM... up to the 33 feet mark you're at 2 ATMs--1 ATM for the depth PLUS the 1 ATM already present at the surface, for a total of two ATMs. Up to 99 feet, we're under that surface ATM, plus another 2 for a total of 3 ATMs, and so on.

 

If I'm remembering correctly, essentially, "air" pressure decreases with altitude and "water" pressure increases with depth--like the principle behind a barometer with varying height, I guess. Because water is denser than air, the pressure increases more rapidly as you descend.

 

To understand the reason why it's important to know the difference between air & water pressure is that air's volume in a certain space is reduced proportionate to the water pressure surrounding it. At 2 ATMs the volume of air is halved, even though the density is doubled. At 3 ATMs the air is at a third of surface volume, and so on. At 2 ATMs the volume of air is halved, but the density is doubled, at 3 ATM it is tripled, because the waterr pressure is tripled as well. Understand?

 

In other words, the air within a confined space will expand proportionally as pressure is reduced. For example, moving from 2 ATM to 1 ATM (from 66 to 33 feet, or even from 33 feet to the surface), the air in a closed container will double. This is why it's necessarily not the submersion (the dive) that will kill you, it's the surfacing that will.

 

Basically, the deeper you go, the greater the water pressure on the timepiece and the greater pressure on the air trapped inside. It is this very difference in volume & density that makes the air want to expand & escape (thus letting air out while letting water in) or, worst case scenario, causes the crystal to explode from the watch, destroying it. This is why past 600 feet, your skull will implode, and not explode.

 

Illustrated on the atmosphere-to-psi calculator here:

 

http://www.lenntech.com/unit-conversion-ca...or/pressure.htm

 

...the pressure exerted on this DSSD at 10 ATMs, or 330 ft, was approximately 147 pounds of pressure per square inch.

 

 

Fascinating!!!...

 

 

[mad dawg 0]

I have a question.

 

One of my watches leaks around the crystal and gasket. I have removed, cleaned and repressed it but it still leaks. Any hints for getting a good seal in this area, silicone grease?

During the pressure test, is it LIKELY the air is entering somewhere else then forcing the crystal out during decompression and causing the leak?

 

MD

[offshore 0]

@md,

How do you KNOW the leak is around the crystal/gasket,? Has it been tested?

If it has- a normal leak will show as a stream of bubbles, which will pinpoint the area of the leak.

Then you need to inspect that area to find out why. Either damage to the seal, or the area on which it seals, or the crystal itself.

A light smear of silicone may help create a seal, but not a lot is needed.

And silicone will only aid in creating a seal, it won't repair damage.

Offshore.

[greg_r 81]

Fantastic post, gio. Thanks!

[gioarmani 2]

I have a question.

 

One of my watches leaks around the crystal and gasket. I have removed, cleaned and repressed it but it still leaks. Any hints for getting a good seal in this area, silicone grease?

During the pressure test, is it LIKELY the air is entering somewhere else then forcing the crystal out during decompression and causing the leak?

 

MD

 

 

Rarely, but I have seen crystal leaks. The gasket might be too small or too dry. I do lightly grease crystal gaskets, but only if I need to remove the crystal. Yes, the air is most likely in somehow--not necessarily there--and blowing out through the crystal. I had one version of the SMP that did this.

[mad dawg 0]

@md,

How do you KNOW the leak is around the crystal/gasket,? Has it been tested?

If it has- a normal leak will show as a stream of bubbles, which will pinpoint the area of the leak.

Then you need to inspect that area to find out why. Either damage to the seal, or the area on which it seals, or the crystal itself.

A light smear of silicone may help create a seal, but not a lot is needed.

And silicone will only aid in creating a seal, it won't repair damage.

Offshore.

 

Fair question. I have a home made tester (pressure chamber type, easily does 6 bar) and during decompression a I get a consistent and large bubble leaking around the crystal edge. Decompressing too fast causes to the crystal to pop out, fortunately that only happened when I had the watch out of the water. Unfortunately the crystal chipped when it popped out, so I will save this learning for the next watch. I have a seiko greaser and it puts a lovely and barely visible smear of grease and the gaskets.

 

Thanks everyone,

 

MD

[gioarmani 2]

Cool.

[offshore 0]

@MD,

Part of the procedure to properly WP test, is to carry out a cycle out of the water, before you water test-

Below from our testing instructions-

 

Pump the pressure to a minimum 3 atm/(Bar)

Allow the watch to remain above the water for 3 minutes.

Before you lower the watch into the water release the pressure.

One failure is having the crystal blow off when the pressure is released. It is better for this to happen with the watch above the water.

If the crystal stays in place, re pressurise, wait another 3 minutes, and proceed to next step.

 

So this overcomes/tests any potential failures around the crystal/seal, without damaging the movement.

O/S

[gioarmani 2]

Excellent advice. I prefer the vacuum tester, over the Bergeon water tester; more accurate and no chance of a misread or damage to the watch. If you're in teh states, look up a store/kiosk in your local mall called "Precision Time". Almost every one I've seen has the vacuum tester. And it goes up to 10 ATM/BARS.

[P_Diddy 0]

Anyone greased the inner gasket of crown and the outer tube's gasket without taking the crown and stem out?

 

Where can you silicon grease readily?

 

The crown on my WM9 Sub is screwing but not freely bit like a creaking hinge!

 

Cheers

[northcountryboy1976 0]

hey Gio, nice collection!!