Help.. Are Chinese Elfs producing "Asian Clone" Movements ?

[Mike 1108 0]

Movement basics - What do we get ?

 

There's several pinned articles about movements and models in the forum and these are very helpful. However, I haven't seen much discussion about where the "Asian clones" are actually made.

 

I have been looking into this hobby for a number of years. There are somethings I think I have worked out, somethings I'm still not sure about.

 

To me, it's interesting, because I think that if I knew I was getting a Seagull movement, I would be pretty confident that the movement was a good base unit - equivalent to an ETA (or pretty damn close), but "Asian" is not so definitive. So I'm trying to see if I understand this industry. Maybe that's not possible.

 

The "Asian clone" ETAs are made by one of a number of manufacturing companies that are legit in the Chinese watch world (they have made versions of the ETA movements since 1955 when ETA patents ran out. (IS THIS ACCURATE and/or TRUE?) There's a list in the attached links.

 

http://chinesewatchw...watch_movements

http://chinesewatchw...t/PTS_Resources

 

The main players are Seagull, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, and Shanghai are the main factories. In general, the movements from these factories are pretty close to Swiss/ETA quality (MOST AGREE). It's the modifications of the movements to customize it to fit or function as a specific OEM type that become the unknown part regarding the quality of the movements put into our watches. Modded 7750 where the gear-train is modded without adding the necessary jewels (seconds other than 9). Some of these mods are done to keep the date wheels at the right depth, etc.

 

Some of the Chinese movements are getting more original - Longer power reserves, multiple barrels, etc. These may change the game a bit as these movements may be a bit more "developed by the Chinese" - they are too new and the Swiss may be a bit more sensitive to direct copies of these, so the long term durability of the movement is unknown.

 

Is this correct ? Do I know what I'm getting as an "Asian Clone" ?

 

Any corrections or additions to this info would be appreciated.

 

I have 20 year old gens, that continue to work well, but I've had some that have to have warranty work performed (<1 yr old). If the modified bridges, additional modules (seconds at 6 with a 7750, etc) are well executed and assembled, everything is good. Short and curly hair issues aside. When we say Asian clone of a ETA, it's from a decent factory. It's what gets modified afterward that gets risky.

 

In general, I stay away from complicated movements (Chronographs, etc) unless it's a basic format of the original copy of the ETA movement that almost all of the watch manufacturers make - unless it's a basic form of the original movement.

 

Is this a reasonable approach to this "hobby" - at least from the perspective of getting watches that will function in the long term ? I have (or soon will have) maybe 10 quality reps and don't plan to change them out frequently, so I'd like to understand what I'm buying.

 

Thanks,

Mike

[nunu78 1,744]

Hmmm nice read.

[Daywatch 4]

The details, probably nobody will know them "for sure" and it doesn´t matter too much. As soon as You have a "western" source that states the movement batch is good - it´s good. This goes for the TC ones and for the Borealis Hangzhous as replacements amongst others. In my opinion the only original damage that possibly is done, is when assembling in a dusty environment and squeezing/hammering/tinkering parts in.

 

Once a replacement is needed, and this comes out of a clean plastic and is re-assembled with the proper care, the watch will run for the next 10-20 years even without another service.

[Left Coast Guy 25]

The details, probably nobody will know them "for sure" and it doesn´t matter too much. As soon as You have a "western" source that states the movement batch is good - it´s good. This goes for the TC ones and for the Borealis Hangzhous as replacements amongst others. In my opinion the only original damage that possibly is done, is when assembling in a dusty environment and squeezing/hammering/tinkering parts in.

 

Once a replacement is needed, and this comes out of a clean plastic and is re-assembled with the proper care, the watch will run for the next 10-20 years even without another service.

 

Yup, my experience too. Every NIB replacement asian movement I've got on ebay has been impressively bulletproof

[Chrisby 1]

Interesting post, I'd be interested to see what people say about. I think as far as my knowledge goes you're right. An unmodified 7750 movement could last for a fair number of years if looked after.

 

I also agree that if the movement is serviced - cleaned, oiled etc it will last even longer. We joke about curly hairs being found in them but they are usually dirty with metal shavings in them.

[Stuvetjee 17]

I think PTS has a big role in the 2836-2/2824-2 and 7750 movements. Our company has good relationship with them, since we start to use more movements from them. They told us the best bought movement is the 2836 and 2824 after the 2813.

[greg_r 86]

What you're actually getting is highly unpredictable given that the makers will use whatever they have available at any given time - and they'll rarely tell the dealers about substitutions. This is why it's not uncommon for watches described as 'Swiss ETA' to have an Asian movement - the maker runs out of the movement they were using, so substitute whatever else they have at hand. So, one sample may have a Sea-Gull or Hangzhou, another may have something completely different. Generally speaking, however, most of the 'Asian Clone ETA' movements tend to be pretty solid.

 

I agree that staying away from complications is the safest approach - even an unmodified A7750 is likely to be a little less reliable than an Asian 2836 or whatever (actually the same is true for the gen Swiss versions) and the more added complications there are (or modifications to move subdials around) the worse reliability gets. If you want to buy watches with chronos, stick to the standard unmodified A7750, A7753 or Sea-Gull ST19 (the latter also referred to as copy Venus or copy Lemania) with secs@9 and you have a reasonable expectation of the watch giving good service for some considerable time.

[Mike 1108 0]

Guys,

 

Thanks for the comments - seems to be about what I expected.

 

Cheers...

[746_heuer 0]

I absolutely disagree that swiss vs asian qualities are "pretty close". Seagull st21 for example is great and very close, but the hangzhou eta 2824 clone is way worse (or at least that has been my luck). A7750s are far from the swiss in terms of reliability too.

Edited December 22, 2014 by 746_heuer