Why can't people just use the Trusted Dealers???

[Balad1 0]

I think we're all in agreement that using trusted dealers is the only way to go if at all possible.

 

My peeve and point being that a select few of our members tend to be rather impatient with noobs when they ask about scam site "xyz", "who makes the best sub" or “express a foolish noob opinionâ€.

 

Personally I think that if you can’t post something positive or informative in reply to a noob then don’t post anything at all.

 

If you think what I’m claiming doesn’t happen read this thread again.

 

Balad1, Thanks for showing a little compassion towards the many people who are drawn to this great site but take a while to absorb all the info in one visit. I learn something from each visit and love the verbal exchanges with some of the NOOB slapping being deserved and some a little on the harsh side but that's how we learn. However, I have just been shafted and thought I would share a little of the experience to show how easy it is to be sucked in.

 

This is my grail watch and I have been looking for a good auto rep for months.

 

I had checked every TD and could not find the exact one I wanted (vintage - yes, quartz - yes but not my grail). I emailed Mary with pictures and she could not find one. Now we all know the longer you can't find one the more you crave. It's human nature and even the Senior members will feel the same.

I eventually found the exact watch on the REPLICA-SWISS.COM site (Scamming bastards!!). After a few emails about quality, movement, etc., which were promptly answered, they sent me pics of the 'exact' watch I would receive.

 

 

Bingo! I can get one. I gullibly paid my $199 and waited for the postman. 2 weeks later this crock of shit arrived.....!!!

 

If the photos don't do it justice, believe me this is the worst item I have ever purchased. It feels like a metal toy watch without the quality.

 

I sent a mail back stating the obvious flaws.

 

Please note the following mistakes compared to YOUR photographs:

1. Bezel should be ceramic, curved with green luminous diving minute numbers and markers. Your watch has a flat bezel with no lumious numbers and is cheaply printed.

2. The date should be black background with white numbers. Your watch is the opposite.

3. Hour markers should be green luminous. Your watch has very poor BLACK markers.

4. The hands should be different shape with green luminous coating. The pointers are not the same as your photo with cheap white lume.

5. I believe the winder should be the screw in type.

6. There is no Blancpain engraving on the side of case opposite winder. See your photos

7. The movement is noisy and rattles which is a sign of a very cheap movement. Normal Asian or Chinese Seagull movements are much better than this.

8 Finally, The strap is very, very cheap plastic. Like those found on children's toy watches.

 

I demanded a full refund and to return the watch.

They proposed to me to keep the watch and choose any watch from their site for a further $150!

Refraining from launching into a full 'Fuck Off' tirade, I proposed a full refund and a watch return as this watch would never be worn.

They suggested $50 refund and I keep the watch.

I responded with give me the full amount NOW!

They suggested $100 and I keep the watch.

I offered some compromise of $150 minimum and no refund (saving the postage) or the full refund or I go straight to PayPal complaints.

They still came back with $120 as I was getting a great watch for free.

Eventually they refunded $150 and I am left with a watch that will be my eternal reminder of my first and hopefully only dealings with a Scam site. I reckon $50 down is a good result as it could have been a lot worse.

 

I move on with a great lesson learned.... If the TDs don't have it then FORGET it.

 

Thanks for sharing your bad experience.

 

I feel that your honest post will help many new members that read it in the future.

 

Well done Mate!

[amuthon 0]

I was waiting for the result of your quest for the grail,

but now I'm very sad to read this my friend.

Thank you for this honest posting, to protect others.

Check out the albums of DSN, maybe you'll find a acceptable one.

He has several types of ff, and the look pretty vintage.

I like the no radiation one...

[NFleischer 4,355]

Actually that Blancpain doesn't LOOK that bad.

 

Also my 2 cents- there are a number of dealers such as Davidsen, Josh and Andrew, PT that are on the list but not as 'trusted dealers'

 

They are not scam sites like Ideal watch, Best Swiss, etc that charge $1000 for a $200 Submariner. You can feel safe that you will get

 

a nice watch at a reasonable (sometimes abit more, not always) price. As Greg said, most of us have used them over the years w/o problems.

 

Or if a problem arose, it was dealt with fairly. Truth is, this is not like shopping at Amazon.com, these are black market items that don't always have

 

very good q.c. I don't care who you deal with, sooner or later, you're going to get a lemon.

[50 Fathoms 0]

Actually that Blancpain doesn't LOOK that bad.

 

Also my 2 cents- there are a number of dealers such as Davidsen, Josh and Andrew, PT that are on the list but not as 'trusted dealers'

 

They are not scam sites like Ideal watch, Best Swiss, etc that charge $1000 for a $200 Submariner. You can feel safe that you will get

 

a nice watch at a reasonable (sometimes abit more, not always) price. As Greg said, most of us have used them over the years w/o problems.

 

Or if a problem arose, it was dealt with fairly. Truth is, this is not like shopping at Amazon.com, these are black market items that don't always have

 

very good q.c. I don't care who you deal with, sooner or later, you're going to get a lemon.

 

I must get a better camera if the FF comes across as 'not bad'. I can assure you this is complete garbage and the only reason it does not go in the bin is it will stand as a regular reminder of how not to buy Reps.

[Baldrick 1]

I feel your pain FF, photos alone don't do justice to the best of reps AND to the worst of them

[jameo210369 0]

This is a horrible game that we are all hooked on, the trusted dealers are only trusted because members have used them and if and when they do have problems then the dealers deal with the issue.

 

All watch sites and watches have problems, the best you can hope for is a good after sales service.

 

Personally I would only use dealers linked to the forum, if they can't source it chances are its a piece of crap from ufanta etc.

 

That Blancpain vintage original is stunning, I remember reading a post about it last week.

[KBH 7]

I sent a mail back stating the obvious flaws.

 

Please note the following mistakes compared to YOUR photographs:

1. Bezel should be ceramic, curved with green luminous diving minute numbers and markers. Your watch has a flat bezel with no lumious numbers and is cheaply printed.

2. The date should be black background with white numbers. Your watch is the opposite.

3. Hour markers should be green luminous. Your watch has very poor BLACK markers.

4. The hands should be different shape with green luminous coating. The pointers are not the same as your photo with cheap white lume.

5. I believe the winder should be the screw in type.

6. There is no Blancpain engraving on the side of case opposite winder. See your photos

7. The movement is noisy and rattles which is a sign of a very cheap movement. Normal Asian or Chinese Seagull movements are much better than this.

8 Finally, The strap is very, very cheap plastic. Like those found on children's toy watches.

 

You missed the most obvious. The nine is upside down on the dial and then the lume was squirted on afterwards.

 

[kolchak 17]

I sent a mail back stating the obvious flaws.

 

Please note the following mistakes compared to YOUR photographs:

1. Bezel should be ceramic, curved with green luminous diving minute numbers and markers. Your watch has a flat bezel with no lumious numbers and is cheaply printed.

2. The date should be black background with white numbers. Your watch is the opposite.

3. Hour markers should be green luminous. Your watch has very poor BLACK markers.

4. The hands should be different shape with green luminous coating. The pointers are not the same as your photo with cheap white lume.

5. I believe the winder should be the screw in type.

6. There is no Blancpain engraving on the side of case opposite winder. See your photos

7. The movement is noisy and rattles which is a sign of a very cheap movement. Normal Asian or Chinese Seagull movements are much better than this.

8 Finally, The strap is very, very cheap plastic. Like those found on children's toy watches.

 

You missed the most obvious. The nine is upside down on the dial and then the lume was squirted on afterwards.

 

 

Wow, I have some bad reps from scam sites but that POS FF is one of the worst rep's ever. Sorry for your luck & hope you (we) find a great FF rep soon.

[Frankt8242 1]

Was "TTK" ever a "trusted dealer" here...????

[JohnG 41]

Was "TTK" ever a "trusted dealer" here...????

On the old forum, yes, not on this one. By the time this forum was created he was already dying.

[vfsvfl 0]

I realize I am super new here, but why is it so hard for people to use the Trusted Dealers here? It just seems like everyday there is a new thread asking about a certain web site, when from what I can tell, just about every watch you may want is listed in one of the Trusted Dealers section. I understand that there is no guarantee on any rep watch, but why take the added risk???

 

Sorry if I am way off base here...

Erik

Reading this thread makes me wonder if a new sub-topic might be appropriate: "Grail Watches."

 

Rolex, Panerai, Breitling, etc. are all well-represented. Folks looking for specific Blancpain or, in my case a Jacob&Co Epic 1 Q2B, are off in the woods turning up rocks.

 

Maybe if a "grail" thread turned up enough folks looking for a given model, it might constitute enough volume (aka $) for one of the trusted dealers to get it built or upgrade a lesser-quality rep already in the market.

 

Of course, I was born yesterday & so maybe not the first to think of this idea...

[greg_r 81]

If it's available, one of our dealers can get it. Period.

 

If it's not available, it ain't available. Other dealers won't be able to get it either - the factories build watches that they think they have a market for and very few dealers have the buying power to influence that (most of the ones that do, are - you guessed it - on our trusted list).

[vfsvfl 0]

BTW, replica-swiss.com is also connected to:

www.watches-exact.com/ &

www.replica-swiss.net

 

and probably a half-dozen other sites as well if my experience (prior to this forum, of course) is typical...

 

FWIW, I couldn't find these on the scam list either...

[greg_r 81]

FORGET the scam list. It's worthless. We'd have to update it daily and even then it'd STILL be incomplete. There's just too many sites out there.

 

RULE ONE: Stick to the dealers on the trusted list if you want to be safe!!!

[vfsvfl 0]

If it's available, one of our dealers can get it. Period.

 

If it's not available, it ain't available. Other dealers won't be able to get it either - the factories build watches that they think they have a market for and very few dealers have the buying power to influence that (most of the ones that do, are - you guessed it - on our trusted list).

Like I said, I was born yesterday & so not likely to point out something not already tried (or avoided because it was pointless).

 

Even so, I am stubborn. The factories do build the watch I want, but at a quality level Mary evaluated as poor.

[vfsvfl 0]

FORGET the scam list. It's worthless. We'd have to update it daily and even then it'd STILL be incomplete. There's just too many sites out there.

--AGREED!

[vfsvfl 0]

no one is arguing with me on the fact of the lower advertised price.

I am. I would like to see a non trusted dealer with lower average pricing on identical product than the trusted dealers. Examples please.

 

HOWEVER: if no one ever used non trusted dealers we would not get new trusteds as dealers would never be "discovered".

For example, if Luthier had stuck to the trusted dealers we would not have Mary. If you know what you are doing buying "outside the box" every now and again can be a good thing.

 

Col.

Thank brings up an interesting point. How does a dealer become one of this forum's trusted dealers? Are there specific criteria? Trial & error? ...?

[Luthier 1]

Let me tell you, how I brought Mary to this Forum.

Once I surfed the Net, found a website, that has live chat, and I've talked to a girl, found her very honest, pleasant to talk with, and quite knowlegeable. I came to GZ, and we met. I ordered a few watches, and it was delivered to me with all modifications I requested. Quality was just stunning. So, I posted the pictures of my new watches and email of the girl, and ordered a few more watches from her. And recommended her to the Forum, assuring, that I met her in real life, and was very pleased with her service and prices. Many times was beaten for "shilling" for Mary, but nothing was able to bend me, because I knew - she was really good. Most of our members back then used to buy almost exclusively from cartel. Being in GZ many times after, I convinced Mary to resign from her company and start her own business. And I continued to buy watches from her. After suffering a lot of humiliation from our beloved members for months and months, somebody, finally, agreed to try Mary. Result was "WOW!!!". Then somebody else... and somebody else... I guess elders remember, how Mary emailed to Col. - "Sir, your watch arrived to your door, but you wasn't at home!!!" She tracked delivery every 15 min.!!! That event was as stunning for our members, as "Shmoola" ordeal. Well... Thanks to Greg - he invited her to try, and in a few weeks Mary earned great reputation for her fast service, low prices, and Quality Control. She was the first dealer, who started to send QC pictures before shipping the watch.

That's how we got our Mary... Don't know about others.

[myaz 3]

I realize I am super new here, but why is it so hard for people to use the Trusted Dealers here? It just seems like everyday there is a new thread asking about a certain web site, when from what I can tell, just about every watch you may want is listed in one of the Trusted Dealers section. I understand that there is no guarantee on any rep watch, but why take the added risk???

 

Sorry if I am way off base here...

Erik

Being relatively new myself, I'll give you this thought:

 

I found a gorgeous watch on a non trusted dealer website within minutes when I first became interested. A little more googling further told me that scams abound and that's when I stumbled into this site. I read a lot here and suffice it to say I didn't deal with that nonTD, but that was HARD. By coincidence, I did finally order that watch from Mary earlier today.

 

Therefore, I can easily see an unlightened noob falling in love with some pretty picture on a website and having a hard time letting go of it.

Hell, they haven't done the research and don't know yet, don't believe yet, can't accept yet, can't fathom yet, that they can get the same or usually better watch here with complete confidence and with all the forum banter thrown in for free.

 

They just need gentle prodding. As for the others, they're fair game on this forum.

[mbjoer 0]

There are two issues here:

 

First:

The TD list will need new dealers regularly in order to stay good. Dealers change over time and no TD will remain perfect for ever, so from time to time dealers should drop out and new dealers will be needed.

Although there are many scammers out there, there are also very good dealers who have not made it to the list. A current example is Aobobuy.

 

Whilst the TD status provides a level of guarantee we should actually APPLAUD guys like luthier who venture into the wild to try new ground. Only then do we get improvements and replacements to the existing list.

These people who dare (or are foolish enough) to deal with non TDs do so at their own risk and for their own money. Often it goes wrong but not always. When it goes wrong it is their loss, not our. But when the Marys of this world are discovered that is our gain.

 

This leads me to the second point:

 

When someone mentions a non-trusted dealer there are too many trigger happy members here who in more or less inflamatory tones shout IDIOT.

 

There is no need to be rude. We are not a fundamentalist church and even when noobs show their ignorance there are two constructive ways of dealing with them: One is politely to tell them why they are wrong and what to do. The other is to move on and say nothing.

 

To endlessly repeat "Why can't people just..." is neither useful nor conductive to a good forum.

Edited May 24, 2011 by mbjoer

[vfsvfl 0]

There are two issues here:

 

First:

The TD list will need new dealers regularly in order to stay good. Dealers change over time and no TD will remain perfect for ever, so from time to time dealers should drop out and new dealers will be needed.

Although there are many scammers out there, there are also very good dealers who have not made it to the list. A current example is Aobobuy.

 

Whilst the TD status provides a level of guarantee we should actually APPLAUD guys like luthier who venture into the wild to try new ground. Only then do we get improvements and replacements to the existing list.

These people who dare (or are foolish enough) to deal with non TDs do so at their own risk and for their own money. Often it goes wrong but not always. When it goes wrong it is their loss, not our. But when the Marys of this world are discovered that is our gain.

 

This leads me to the second point:

 

When someone mentions a non-trusted dealer there are too many trigger happy members here who in more or less inflamatory tones shout IDIOT.

 

There is no need to be rude. We are not a fundamentalist church and even when noobs show their ignorance there are two constructive ways of dealing with them: One is politely to tell them why they are wrong and what to do. The other is to move on and say nothing.

 

To endlessly repeat "Why can't people just..." is neither useful nor conductive to a good forum.

Excellent points all, Thanks!

[Bosox 0]

Do TDs typically acknowledge a request to find a watch or will I be left hanging and hoping for the best?

[JohnG 41]

Do TDs typically acknowledge a request to find a watch or will I be left hanging and hoping for the best?

 

Usually they will reply, but not necessarily quickly - some live in other time zones, have lots of emails, dont' have our idea of "customer service", etc... If it has been more than three days, I might send a second email...

[vfsvfl 0]

Do TDs typically acknowledge a request to find a watch or will I be left hanging and hoping for the best?

My experience is they do tend to respond but their first response, as mine might be if I was in their place, is often to refer you to review their website &/or recommend something they have on it already.

 

I haven't found my grail watch at a reputable dealer yet but Mary has given me some constructive feedback a couple times now. In fact, she tells me she found the watch but discouraged me from pursuing it based on poor quality in what she found.

 

Sometimes you win by not losing...

[David543 0]

Let me tell you, how I brought Mary to this Forum.

Once I surfed the Net, found a website, that has live chat, and I've talked to a girl, found her very honest, pleasant to talk with, and quite knowlegeable. I came to GZ, and we met. I ordered a few watches, and it was delivered to me with all modifications I requested. Quality was just stunning. So, I posted the pictures of my new watches and email of the girl, and ordered a few more watches from her. And recommended her to the Forum, assuring, that I met her in real life, and was very pleased with her service and prices. Many times was beaten for "shilling" for Mary, but nothing was able to bend me, because I knew - she was really good. Most of our members back then used to buy almost exclusively from cartel. Being in GZ many times after, I convinced Mary to resign from her company and start her own business. And I continued to buy watches from her. After suffering a lot of humiliation from our beloved members for months and months, somebody, finally, agreed to try Mary. Result was "WOW!!!". Then somebody else... and somebody else... I guess elders remember, how Mary emailed to Col. - "Sir, your watch arrived to your door, but you wasn't at home!!!" She tracked delivery every 15 min.!!! That event was as stunning for our members, as "Shmoola" ordeal. Well... Thanks to Greg - he invited her to try, and in a few weeks Mary earned great reputation for her fast service, low prices, and Quality Control. She was the first dealer, who started to send QC pictures before shipping the watch.

That's how we got our Mary... Don't know about others.

 

Great post. If she says it's crap, it is. I'm sure someone else will supply it, but that doesn't make it a good rep!

 

She TURNS BUSINESS AWAY if the watch is no good. Not many people in any field have that sort of honesty. I look at the QA pictures she sends now and just say, 'you've got it, if it's ok to you, just send it' !