need advice before buying this watch

[myaz 3]

Thank you for the learned input and diversity of views.

 

@Luthier. It is comforting to hear you have 15 21Js that all run well after 4-5 years. Fair enough.

@Narikaa. Your insight into chinese mentality makes me wonder why dealers would even consider becoming trusted dealers

and then deal with US (possibly EU as well) buyers. Thank god RWG schmoozed them onboard.

@gr1ffo. Wonder if Elton John will autograph it.

@Scavolas. scuze the ignorance...are the dead 21Js swapped out by trusted dealers or anyone around when they expire?

 

 

Unanswered question from confusing original post:

Is the typical rep shown in the pictures sometimes/always/never available with upgraded movements (somewhere out there) how do you find out and does it impose on the trusted dealer to inquire?

[narikaa 129]

As for the original 'is there an enhanced version', well not that Im aware of. And thats the problem many watches appear as a 'one off' edition pooh pooh them and wait and often the boat is missed.

 

 

Ive got more than a couple of hundred 21js in my personal collection that afaik all still running

 

@Narikaa. Your insight into chinese mentality makes me wonder why dealers would even consider becoming trusted dealers

and then deal with US (possibly EU as well) buyers. Thank god RWG schmoozed them onboard.

 

Well apply a little common sense.. if the failure rate was at anything like the naysayers would have you believe then it couldnt happen - could it?

 

are the dead 21Js swapped out by trusted dealers or anyone around when they expire?

 

Hardly, qualified watchsmiths just fix them. Out here in the East fixing them for peanuts is de riguer, even my UK watchsmith has only had to replace 1 or 2 21j movements in all the years Ive dealt with him.

 

 

 

.

[KBH 7]

Unfortunately, here in the West, having them repaired would be considerably more than the cost of a new movement. It's best to learn the basics of a simple movement swap and be done with it.

[myaz 3]

Cool, right up my alley.

So if a 21J craps out, is it an option to send a PM to Trailbloss99 at the RWG shop, get 2 new movts for after I botch the 1st attempt and be done?

[Baldrick 1]

Why is that by general rule and due to replica business basic cirsumstances, there is no such thing as a manufacturers warranty on these products. So there are no consumer rights whatsoever.

 

No, none, ETA won't guarantee your movement, YOU have NO contract with ETA, therefore NO GUARANTEE !

 

I am sorry, you tear down all our illlusions that might be connected to this whole concept.

 

Sorry once again if I blew your house down !

 

they should be glad not being put into jail (after they spent their money, of course) for keeping alive this whole nonsense business.

 

If you live in Italy / France and possibly even Germany, be thankful you aren't going to jail !

 

A nice part of ETA/Swatch's income from wholesale selling of their movements therefore is illegal and must be punishable since knowingly by all parties the movements go into counterfeit watches?

 

I'd like to comment on that, but can't as it makes no sense !

 

Not the way you described it, but it would be a rather strange behavior if Yamaha would produce 5-times the parts that would wind up in their (or licensed manufacturers) products, ripping all the financial benefits for them, double so because they could knowingly forget about providing mgf warranty for 4/5 of their output. It just against their own basic sense as a market leader. It is a shameless predatory and hypocrite behavior on ETA/Swatch side, to say the least. The Chinese part of the story is pure illegal counterfeiting, but it is fueled a great proportion by the Swiss movemement manufacturers profit hunger.

 

DITTO !

 

I've lost count of the number of times and the number of twonks who've raised this issue of accountability in the face of poor QC or poor product, who want to apply a Better Business Bureau / Trading Standards / Kitemark /Ralph Nader / ISO 9002 mentality to this illegal business, they labour under the assumption that because they're pouring their almighty dollars into the illegal enterprise, they should be offered total protection from disastrous consequences and immunity from any complicity in the transaction.

 

It's time they realised why we have trusted dealers on our forum, it's because those dealers PERSONALLY have made a commitment to providing a better service to forum members, in many instances a dealer has no recourse with the manufacturers of the product, he in many instances will rely on the same goodwill being extended to him from his supplier, who may or may not receive same consideration from the factory, there's nothing set in tablets of stone tho', that's why we've seen so many dealers fall by the wayside over many years, too many problems, too much hassle, diminishing returns as one dealer after another cut each other's throats for a greater share of the market, something always has to give.

 

If you have concerns about spending AND losing a $100 buxx on a fake watch, perhaps a re-examination and re-allocation of your disposable income should be in order, if you can't pay the price, don't roll the dice B)

[David543 0]

I don't know why your illusions have to be torn down.

 

What you have is a business that is not regulated by a state force telling people how they have to behave and enforcing that with the ultimate sanctions of courts etc to make people behave. What you have instead is a disparate collection of self organizing people, us and the dealers, who want to behave well and honorably with each other, not because they have to or the state will compell them, but because of a human decency and honest commitment to each other. Friendship and mutual respect. That to me is a better display of the best of humanity, overcoming regulation and barriers and behaving well with honour.

 

This forum and the dealers I have dealt with, are the most honest and best sort of people, because they provide service and commitment to searching out the best watches from the myriad available, checking they are received and repairing or replacing them if there are problems because it is the right thing to do!

 

I am sure they get more business by being that way, but they do go beyond the necessary. Mary sent me a Montblanc pen and spare refil just because I had to wait a while for the watch as she moved during the process. In no way did I expect her to do that, I understood her problem! The gesture touched me. Surely this sort of thing should make us all proud to be a part of this group, it sure as heck does me.

 

This is what people can do together.

[Scavolas 0]

May God bless all of you here at RWG Forum, and all the Trusted Dealers for doing what nobody would force them doing.

I am serious, this is just so cool!

 

(I hope nobody took it too seriously and personally, I am soooo noob at reps that I had to get to this point of waking up to the harsh reality of this new world. My mistake -- your wisdom, sorry.)

Edited April 30, 2011 by Scavolas