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Lutaito

Pam carbotech date alignment issue

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Lutaito

Hello everyone. I have this pam and the date wheel is loose/misaligned and also moves randomly if i wear the watch. I want to correct this issue.

I don’t know what movement is this i believe a 7750. Im new to modding and repairs.

 

Is this a difficult job and how do i take the movement out? I don’t see clamps.

 

Any help/guidance will be helpful

 

Thanks

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FunnyStarSystem

So if you change the date, it always is that amount misaligned? Or it appears to not be stuck down?

It looks like that movement will just come out with gravity into your hand. Have you got a watch movement holder or something that will act as one so it won't spin on the rotor while you try to work on it?

Getting to the date wheel isn't easy though, you'll need tools to remove hands, and remove the dial etc, but it's possible you could secure it without removing everything.

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Lutaito
So if you change the date, it always is that amount misaligned? Or it appears to not be stuck down?
It looks like that movement will just come out with gravity into your hand. Have you got a watch movement holder or something that will act as one so it won't spin on the rotor while you try to work on it?

Yes it always is misaligned that wayon every change. Yes i have most of the tools and including holder but its not coming off as it should usually.

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FunnyStarSystem

Have you tried a little smack on the crystal while holding it in your hand? If that's not working you might need to wait for someone like @GenTLe to be awake in Europe :)

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Lutaito

Haha thats one thing i tried right away after it wasnt coming out. I guess ill have to wait

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FunnyStarSystem

It looks like there used to be a tab in that indentation in the ring, but since it's not there and you can't see any others I guess it's a mystery for now :mummy:

Please hold sir, someone will be along to assist you shortly :thumbsup2:

Perhaps @Simonix can help (UK)

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GenTLe

Sorry guys, this time I can't really help: I've no experience on these at all...

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Dr Fun Socks

Could be a front loading movement? Ive no idea how the bezel comes off. Normally i just undo a random screw near the edge that looks odd, try to wiggle the movement and if theres no more movement than before stick it back in and try a different one. The screw at about 11 oclock in the bottom picture in the outer most ring looks suspicious, id start there. 

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Simonix

That looks like one of the clone movements?! However, I cannot remember if these are still based on the 7750 or not?!

if I were you, I would PM   @ROLIE  on here. I had a very similar  date wheel problem on a 7750 Breitling recently, he sorted it within a few days and at an extremely reasonable price! he is a top bloke!

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Simonix

Also worth noting, these movements are basically held in with the friction! Once you remove the stem, you basically prise the movement out the back of the case! There is a chaprer ring that helps keep it in place. 
 

I had to find that out for myself recently with one of my palms that has the same movement

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Lutaito

Finally!! The movement is out date is aligned. Now one more issue. This small seconds hand on the pam just doesnt wanna sit in. I put it and as soon as i reverse the case the hand falls off. Ugh.

Any tips on this please?965360df31a38315ea89cc1fcb828ae0.jpg
5559b147f6abf5387239482a9009213a.jpg
a6edde92aba1fff2f3b9104fc66bb2d8.png

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Simonix

Use a loupe, to make sure it is sitting on the pinion. I have found similar, only to find it wasn't actually on the pinion, but next to it.

Or, perhaps try fitting the subdial hand to it without the dial on first, to make sure it definitely is loose and not sitting tight?

Finally, maybe the tiniest drop of Loctite would do the job?

By the way, did you find that the movement was just a "Push fit" as per my previous comment?

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tonyh7

Getting the little second hand back on pams is a fiddle. Perseverance is the key and not too much force. 

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GenTLe
3 hours ago, Lutaito said:

Finally!! The movement is out date is aligned. Now one more issue. This small seconds hand on the pam just doesnt wanna sit in. I put it and as soon as i reverse the case the hand falls off. Ugh.

Any tips on this please?
5559b147f6abf5387239482a9009213a.jpg
 

Man... You broke the second hand pinion on this one... The hole next to the 18 on the date wheel should have a tiny pinion sticking out where the hand is placed, yours is clearly missing it! And from the pic of the watch with the hand floating on the dial, it's visible that the pinion is indeed in the hand...

Look here, next to the 29/30 on the date wheel:

VALJOUX7750-2-sus.jpg

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Simonix
45 minutes ago, GenTLe said:

Man... You broke the second hand pinion on this one... The hole next to the 18 on the date wheel should have a tiny pinion sticking out where the hand is placed, yours is clearly missing it! And from the pic of the watch with the hand floating on the dial, it's visible that the pinion is indeed in the hand...

Look here, next to the 29/30 on the date wheel:

VALJOUX7750-2-sus.jpg

Ouch!!

I think you are right?! You can see the pinion sticking out of the bottom of the hand itself...

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TheGingerFerret

You know when your decide to try and fix something yourself to try and save yourself $20, then end up fucking things up and costing yourself $100?

#metoo

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Simonix
37 minutes ago, TheGingerFerret said:

You know when your decide to try and fix something yourself to try and save yourself $20, then end up fucking things up and choosing yourself $100?

#metoo

Mind you. No response to anyone's advice in previous posts. As to whether he tried or took any of it?!

Might have a cheap pam going on M2M soon by the looks of things. After the OP has racked up a few posts anyway.....

 

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Lutaito
Man... You broke the second hand pinion on this one... The hole next to the 18 on the date wheel should have a tiny pinion sticking out where the hand is placed, yours is clearly missing it! And from the pic of the watch with the hand floating on the dial, it's visible that the pinion is indeed in the hand...
Look here, next to the 29/30 on the date wheel:
VALJOUX7750-2-sus.jpg

Ouch shoot!! I think you are right. But when i remove the dial and try to put the hands its going in and works. Thats what confuses me.

So no cure except replacing the seconds wheel or movement?
Use a loupe, to make sure it is sitting on the pinion. I have found similar, only to find it wasn't actually on the pinion, but next to it.
Or, perhaps try fitting the subdial hand to it without the dial on first, to make sure it definitely is loose and not sitting tight?
Finally, maybe the tiniest drop of Loctite would do the job?
By the way, did you find that the movement was just a "Push fit" as per my previous comment?

It was indeed a pressure and pry fit. I realized after using a loupe and saw a o ring gasket that was holding the movement retainer down and tight.
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Lutaito
Mind you. No response to anyone's advice in previous posts. As to whether he tried or took any of it?!
Might have a cheap pam going on M2M soon by the looks of things. After the OP has racked up a few posts anyway.....
 

What does this mean? Sorry my mother tongue is not english

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Lutaito
You know when your decide to try and fix something yourself to try and save yourself $20, then end up fucking things up and costing yourself $100?
#metoo

Thats true but i guess thats part of the learning curve no? Im sure everyone who was learning to modd and repair had similar issues in the beginning

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Simonix
23 minutes ago, Lutaito said:


What does this mean? Sorry my mother tongue is not english

Don’t worry about it. 
 

if the seconds needle works ok when in place, but falls off when you turn upside down, maybe try using some glue?

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TheGingerFerret
18 minutes ago, Lutaito said:


Thats true but i guess thats part of the learning curve no? Im sure everyone who was learning to modd and repair had similar issues in the beginning

Absolutely! Hence #metoo

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Lutaito
Don’t worry about it. 
 
if the seconds needle works ok when in place, but falls off when you turn upside down, maybe try using some glue?

Haha thats scary. One slip and the wheel will be jammed

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GenTLe
1 hour ago, Simonix said:

maybe try using some glue?

No please... It is 0.20mm pinion, the glue will simply mess it up and will not keep the thing in place, it's just too small.

@Lutaito I tell you how I'd proceed:
1) first I'll try to remove the hand from the pinion. I'd fit the pinion in a pin vice and then fix the pinvice into a real vice and with a presto tool for the central chrono second hands I'll try to remove it. Not easy anyway as the part on which you can grip the pinion stump is very small.

2) I'd try to ask if someone has a spare 4th wheel from an A7750, or I'd try to get a gen one (but I can't guarantee it will  fit the asian jewels, a7750 aren't 100% clone of the  Valjoux one, plus the hand pinion on the Valjoux is 0.17mm and the asian is 0.20, so the hand will be loose)

3) if both the upper are ok, then you'll have to completely tear apart the movement, as to reach the main gear train you need to remove everything on the side of the counterweight (they are 3 plates/bridges...).

 

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Popperini

I’m so glad I learned how to break seconds hand pinions by doing it to 2813 movements...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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