Jump to content
tslims99

helium escape valve

Recommended Posts

tslims99

Does the helium escape valve actually function on reps?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
FunnyStarSystem

It depends. Some reps it's just an appendage without an opening to the case, others they at least create a sprung gasketed outlet for when pressure builds, but are they engineered to the same standards as gen? I would suspect not. Either way, you shouldn't be taking your rep to anywhere near those depths unless you have a death-wish :D

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
trailboss99

They mostly work better than the early ones that were arse about and let water in instead of He out! 
Seriously, a lot of the early DSSDs had the valve sprung in reverse so higher pressure outside was allowed in resulting water ingress at anything deeper than elbow depth. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bobbylah
On 21/04/2021 at 04:47, trailboss99 said:

They mostly work better than the early ones that were arse about and let water in instead of He out! 
Seriously, a lot of the early DSSDs had the valve sprung in reverse so higher pressure outside was allowed in resulting water ingress at anything deeper than elbow depth. 

LOL. Had one of those from Mary back in the day (2011)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Redfire1066
Posted (edited)

@tslims99 What a  great question.  I have often pondered this myself about Reps. 

Without a pressure testing tank .. .. I doubt we could tell.  My guess is no.  I would even go as far to say that even the stated safe depth ratings on the Reps would not be achievable.  Even in a genuine watch with a 100m rating the watch does not have a 100m depth rating. Confused?  Me too.  It is complicated and over and above the metalology, engineering design and gaskets and ISO testing requirements it involves different types of pressures and dynamics and gas variations.  Most accredited dive watches are tested 10% or 25% or up to as much as 50% above there stated depth ratings. 

As for the Reps . .... .. while I do not recommend it .. ..  many members have posted experiences where they have successfully worn their Reps with no ingress of water while swimming, snorkelling and I remember reading a couple of posts where even success during Scuba Diving was mentioned.   
 
In fact in watches that have genuine helium escape valves this valve is basically unnecessary for recreational diving.  The fact is that few who buy the watch actually scuba dive at all, let alone find themselves in saturation diving situations where a helium escape valve would actually be of any use.  
 
The diving world record currently stands at 332.35 meters...So my 6000meter rated H2O Kalmar Oceantime Special should be okay for washing the dishes  . ..   . .. .  lol :D
. 
Below is couple of links with a bit of chit chat and more details regarding the history and modern-day functionality of helium escape valves in watches.  Of course none of this should be applied to Reps ...   . .. or should it? . .. This your question.   ... :Thinking:
 
Edited by Redfire1066
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piloten

So, one of you can educate me, please

When you go down --in the water, you pervs-- your watch has the amount of air in it that it had at the surface.

Unless you are in a pressure vessel, there is no opportunity for helium or any other gas to get in the watch.

So, unless you are "diving" in a bathysphere or equivalent, the helium valve does absolutely nothing?

No?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tribefan
7 minutes ago, Piloten said:

So, one of you can educate me, please

When you go down --in the water, you pervs-- your watch has the amount of air in it that it had at the surface.

Unless you are in a pressure vessel, there is no opportunity for helium or any other gas to get in the watch.

So, unless you are "diving" in a bathysphere or equivalent, the helium valve does absolutely nothing?

No?

Yeah, that's pretty much it. You'd have to be in pressurized vessel where the nitrogen is replaced by helium.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tslims99
On 26/04/2021 at 16:35, Redfire1066 said:

@tslims99 What a  great question.  I have often pondered this myself about Reps. 

Without a pressure testing tank .. .. I doubt we could tell.  My guess is no.  I would even go as far to say that even the stated safe depth ratings on the Reps would not be achievable.  Even in a genuine watch with a 100m rating the watch does not have a 100m depth rating. Confused?  Me too.  It is complicated and over and above the metalology, engineering design and gaskets and ISO testing requirements it involves different types of pressures and dynamics and gas variations.  Most accredited dive watches are tested 10% or 25% or up to as much as 50% above there stated depth ratings. 

As for the Reps . .... .. while I do not recommend it .. ..  many members have posted experiences where they have successfully worn their Reps with no ingress of water while swimming, snorkelling and I remember reading a couple of posts where even success during Scuba Diving was mentioned.   
 
In fact in watches that have genuine helium escape valves this valve is basically unnecessary for recreational diving.  The fact is that few who buy the watch actually scuba dive at all, let alone find themselves in saturation diving situations where a helium escape valve would actually be of any use.  
 
The diving world record currently stands at 332.35 meters...So my 6000meter rated H2O Kalmar Oceantime Special should be okay for washing the dishes  . ..   . .. .  lol :D
.
Below is couple of links with a bit of chit chat and more details regarding the history and modern-day functionality of helium escape valves in watches.  Of course none of this should be applied to Reps ...   . .. or should it? . .. This your question.   ... :Thinking:
 

This brings up a different discussion point...

I have noticed that about 95% or people  who are into horology state that the actual water resistance rating on a watch is nowhere near what is stated on the case or product specs. This is something that I have actually looked into at length in the past, and I am afraid that I have to disagree with everyone. I read a fantastic article a while back (which I am looking for online again) from a reputable source that explained that the water resistance ratings on watches is indeed legit, especially on luxury brands or otherwise reputable brands. Basically, if a watch is rated for 50m, you can take it to 50m underwater. There was a lot of data to back it up...

BUT the big thing is that a reputable brand is not going to put a warranty on a watch and make a claim that they cannot back up. That is a recipe for litigious action. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheGingerFerret

This might freak you out, but rather than choosing to believe the single source that you can't actually provide, I'm going to choose to believe the squillions of reports from reputable outlets that all say the opposite.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Theduke.williams
17 hours ago, Piloten said:

So, one of you can educate me, please

When you go down --in the water, you pervs-- your watch has the amount of air in it that it had at the surface.

Unless you are in a pressure vessel, there is no opportunity for helium or any other gas to get in the watch.

So, unless you are "diving" in a bathysphere or equivalent, the helium valve does absolutely nothing?

No?

Learn something new every day!

I always thought that Helium could ingress a watch when submerged in sea water at high pressure, because the Helium was dissolved in the salt water.

Not sure where I read this, but it seems I've been mis-informed all along.

He valves are only needed for saturation divers and it is because of the He rich gas mix that saturation divers breath.

The attached article explains all and is very informative imho.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/confessions-commercial-diver-helium-release-valve/

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Abe Fromen

I have a friend who's a well respected watch maker and was a mechanical engineer in a previous life. This guy is the very letter of meticulous to the point that he macro-photographs every step of every service and provides the owner with a DVD of the photos. 

We have had many discussions about water proofness of gen watches (btw i don't discuss reps with him because he's one of 'those' people)... anyways... he pressure tests every case before he puts the movement back in (and fixes any issues he sees before the movement goes back in). He tests to 100% of the rated depth plus 25%. Once he's serviced something, they all pass this 100% plus 25% test every time. 

As noted above... no brand will rate a watch to a depth and knowingly not be able to achieve that depth rating because (a) it's fraud (b) it's bad for the brand and (c) you DO open yourself up to the risk of litigation. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Redfire1066

I'm off to the Aft deck store for a 1000 meter ball of twine  . . lol :fishing:

ZfybCS.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piloten
4 hours ago, Theduke.williams said:

Learn something new every day!

I always thought that Helium could ingress a watch when submerged in sea water at high pressure, because the Helium was dissolved in the salt water.

Not sure where I read this, but it seems I've been mis-informed all along.

He valves are only needed for saturation divers and it is because of the He rich gas mix that saturation divers breath.

The attached article explains all and is very informative imho.

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/confessions-commercial-diver-helium-release-valve/

 

 

I had you at "go down" didn't I

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Abe Fromen
13 minutes ago, Piloten said:

I had you at "go down" didn't I

You had us ALL, JP, ALL. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
submarinerblue

Any helium escape valve on a rep is just for show. Even the ones on gens are of no use except for a very small group of professional saturation divers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tslims99
20 hours ago, TheGingerFerret said:

This might freak you out, but rather than choosing to believe the single source that you can't actually provide, I'm going to choose to believe the squillions of reports from reputable outlets that all say the opposite.

Doesn't freak me out. Most people choose to believe what they want without evidence and follow the blind. You are not different I assume.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tslims99
20 hours ago, TheGingerFerret said:

This might freak you out, but rather than choosing to believe the single source that you can't actually provide, I'm going to choose to believe the squillions of reports from reputable outlets that all say the opposite.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/what-dive-watch-depth-ratings-really-mean-and-whether-you-can-trust-them

Hodinkee.

Have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheGingerFerret
34 minutes ago, tslims99 said:

Doesn't freak me out. Most people choose to believe what they want without evidence and follow the blind. You are not different I assume.

On the contrary, I'm very open minded and willing to be persuaded that old ideas no longer hold water - if you'll excuse the pun. I was merely making the point that if the choice is to believe tonnes of articles on the subject over the word of one guy on the internet who can't find a source, I'm likely to believe the articles over that single internet dude.

That said, my personal opinion is that Rep owners panic about water resistance way too much. I've never had a modern Rep dive watch fail a water resistance test and thus my own opinion, as a consequence of personal experience, is that decent Reps are generally very water resistant and I happily swim in my decent dive watches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheGingerFerret
39 minutes ago, tslims99 said:

Yes, I've read that before. Btw, you're very passive aggressive you know! Anyway, an interesting article. So your entire argument is based on a Hodinkee article that in itself is based on what one person argued on Watchuseek. I personally wouldn't call that a damning and conclusive argument, certainly not in the way you seem to think it is. But then I'm not open-minded like you.

The single person on Watchuseek even concludes, 'So the final conclusion regarding ratings is that you should not trust them very much, they don't mean much and is often a mere marketing tool and the difference between models can be great. Infact most of the time we as consumers nor the manufacturers them self knows a particular models maximum performance.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
tslims99
1 hour ago, TheGingerFerret said:

Yes, I've read that before. Btw, you're very passive aggressive you know! Anyway, an interesting article. So your entire argument is based on a Hodinkee article that in itself is based on what one person argued on Watchuseek. I personally wouldn't call that a damning and conclusive argument, certainly not in the way you seem to think it is. But then I'm not open-minded like you.

The single person on Watchuseek even concludes, 'So the final conclusion regarding ratings is that you should not trust them very much, they don't mean much and is often a mere marketing tool and the difference between models can be great. Infact most of the time we as consumers nor the manufacturers them self knows a particular models maximum performance.'

It's not passive aggressive. I'm being a dick to you on purpose. i am good at that when i need to be.


And my argument is NOT just based on a Hodinkee article, which I think we can both agree is about as reputable as it gets. It is based on the fact that it is easy to claim fraud and sue someone for making false claims. Read Abe's post. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TheGingerFerret
2 minutes ago, tslims99 said:

It's not passive aggressive. I'm being a dick to you on purpose. i am good at that when i need to be.


And my argument is NOT just based on a Hodinkee article, which I think we can both agree is about as reputable as it gets. It is based on the fact that it is easy to claim fraud and sue someone for making false claims. Read Abe's post. 

I think our opinions are fairly close to each other tbh, but you tell me to trust the evidence and research things myself, yet you accept totally what one person on Watchuseek says!

You also ignore a big part of what said one person in Watchuseek opines in that he says it depends a lot on the build quality of the watch itself and that some of them are shite and shouldn't be trusted to anywhere near their official rating (ie, a well built dive watch/tool watch is likely to exceed their rating, whereas a shitty 30m resistant fashion watch is likely to fail at the first signs of rain).

Anyway, let's stop boring the rest of the wankers on this thread.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glaude

Talk about going beyond the rating

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GenTLe
On 28/04/2021 at 02:26, Piloten said:

So, unless you are "diving" in a bathysphere or equivalent, the helium valve does absolutely nothing?

No?

The problem isn't down there. The problem is when you go back and enter into the decompression chamber. The mixture of gas in there is initially similar to the one they breath down there, so He can enter into the watch. Problem is that when the pressure is partially released, the He can't escape so quickly and makes the watch glass to "pop" out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Piloten
3 hours ago, TheGingerFerret said:

On the contrary, I'm very open minded and willing to be persuaded that old ideas no longer hold water - if you'll excuse the pun. I was merely making the point that if the choice is to believe tonnes of articles on the subject over the word of one guy on the internet who can't find a source, I'm likely to believe the articles over that single internet dude.

That said, my personal opinion is that Rep owners panic about water resistance way too much. I've never had a modern Rep dive watch fail a water resistance test and thus my own opinion, as a consequence of personal experience, is that decent Reps are generally very water resistant and I happily swim in my decent dive watches.

My mind is so open, the wind blows through with a lonesome, mournful sound . . .

Am I the only one who buys a rep to protect my gens and then buys a cheap gen to protect the rep ?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×