Rolex 214270 Explorer 39mm light franken

[APjumbo 3,031]

I thought I might try to capture my journey down the franken rabbit hole, I don't see a ton of threads on the 214270 39mm Explorer.

This was one of the watches that I lusted after years ago. I never would have guessed that they would discontinue such a popular 39mm case size, figured I would always have the opportunity to buy one "later" kinda missed the boat I guess.

Well there's no point even considering getting on a wait list now.  It also seems hard to justify dropping 10k on one now, I would have to sell a car, kidney, or my whole rep collection (that ain't happening!)

After searching RLX forum I realized 214270 parts/dials were pretty much non existent for sale, on the rep forums all I found was WTB posts. I hadn't searched often but noticed ebay has heavily damaged dials for 300 or pristine ones for 2000.

Scrolling through ebay watch parts over breakfast the other day like any watch obsessed freak I notice a dial for just under a grand. A few specks, not perfect, but also didn't look like it was dragged behind a car.

Dove in head first like an idiot and figured the rest would work itself out. Whats the worst that could happen, right? watches are fun, right?

 

If you want to save some time reading all this, maybe you are considering doing this as well,stop here, spoiler, the BP dial is freaking good. I only just received the gen dial yesterday and I now realize this is a great way to throw away money.

KJ2020 mentioned several times on RWI that the best rep is the BP with an ETA 2824, done, go no further. I believe he is right. But I will continue on regardless, half the fun is the journey, right?

 

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/7478507-new-explorer-i-214270-39mm-bp/page15

 

The biggest difference between the BP dial and GEN (gen on left) is the lume.

The lume in the pics looks blue, in the flesh it appears more aqua marine(greenish/teal)

The BP lume is slightly more blue.

In the photos the lume between them appears similar, but in the flesh the gen dial is twice as bright.

The lume on the gen is so good, I go outside, then in a dim room and it glowing bright.

 

 

The next difference is the dial color. On wrist you really can't tell the difference, the gen looks black, shiny black, not matte.

Through a loupe you can see the gen has a slightly metallic / anthracite / super dark grey/black. The BP is just gloss black.

 

On wrist it is extremely hard to tell the difference between them.

I think a lot has to do with the crappy crystal (rolex has no AR as far as I know) The amount of reflection indoor/outdoor you don't get a good clear look of the dials unless you are staring closely in just the right lighting.

Maybe its just my amateurish eyes but if these get mixed up I would need a loupe to be able to tell them apart.

The good news about the crappy crystal and amount of reflection is 98 percent of the specks/faults with the dial are hard to spot now! sweet goodness!

 

 

 

 

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It seems impossible to capture in pics, the light has to catch it just right. But on the gen the ball/tips on the top of the crown logo appear more shiny&raised, applied thicker maybe. You can only spot this under magnification, or if you are staring intensely and catch it just right.

Same thing goes for the ROLEX printing, it appears ever so slightly raised, and slightly "sharper/crisp" again, I cant tell the difference from two feet away. Gen on top or left.

 

Here is a few more pics of lume ect.

 

 

Edit-

Picked up an ARF, here are some pics, ARF on left

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Here are some measurements in case someone wants them in the future.

dial diameter 30.26mm

dial feet at 2:30 and 7:30

22mm apart

 

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So where to go from here......

I will surely have to edit all this as I go and find answers or better info.

My original wants list would include, in priority

Gen dial

Gen Hands

No ghost date setting on crown

swiss ETA

Gen crown/tube:

I think what I need for my EX1 is a 6mm 604-0 Crown, 24-5330 Tube

A 603 crown with 24-5330 tube would also be very similar

https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/rolex-tudor-replicas/8919889-ex1-214270-crown-size-6mm-or-7mm-triplock

 

I think I can get everything I want except the gen hands.

3035/3130/3135 hands size 95/140/22

28X ETA hands size 90/150/25

MK1 short hands part number 410-214270

 

First of all, they are impossible to find, and if I do find some I am likely to pay $1000 and receive rep hands or short  MK1 hands anyway.

The Explorer 1 that came in a 39mm case is a 214270.

They produced it from 2010 as a MK1 dial variant with the solid 3,6,9 until 2015.

That version came with a short minute/hour hands (taken from a 36mm EXP 114270, hour and minute very similar to sub hands)

In 2016 the MK2 version became longer and fatter, as well with lumed 3,6,9 markers.

Great writeup here, search for this on google

Detailed Relative Hand Sizes - 214270 v 16610 v 116610

If I was smart, I would have looked for a pre 2016 dial with the solid gold 3,6,9 and likely have been able to get away with shorter gen sub hands just fine.

Startime supply is a good source for alternative hands but they do not have the MK2 explorer hands I need.

[lots here stolen from RWI ]

 

BP and GF have the correct "3" on the dial, ARF "3" is wonky.

ARF has issues with the rehaut lining up. (stamping on inside of case)

 

These reps come from these factories

 

JF SH3132 out of stock [$368]

So there are three version of 214270 39mm from JF:

-Black dial with chrome "9,6,3" index only V1 version

-Blue dial with chrome "9,6,3" index only V1 version

-Black dial "new 2016" with "9,6,3 with" lume index are in:

-V1 (wrong lume and hands and clasp)

-V2 (updated lume, hands, and clasp)

 

BP 316L has two variations,(2824/2836 [$298]) & (3132 [$328])

The cases should be similar but likely use two different movement holders, one for the 2824 (which is sometimes sold as a 2836) and the other for the 3132. (I am guessing here)

BP 3132 is probably a SA3135 with fake 3132 engravings and probably a ghost date????. SA3135 is not desirable.

You can replace the SA movement with a VS3135 (has ghost date)

 

GF 3132  likely uses a BP dial but comes in super fabulous 905L steel (same watch/ sister factory  as BP 3132)

 

ARF 904L uses an SH3135 (better than BP SA3135) (not as good as VS3135) [$478]

has no date position on crown
SH movements commonly have auto wind issues. Poor power reserve. Replace with gen parts $250-$350

 

Noob uses a2824, likely out of stock. [sale$278]

 

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Movements:

If anyone else is as bloody confused about all these movements as I am, here you go

Best - VS

Best - VR

Middle - SH

not so nice - SA

3135 is a 40mm submariner movement (28.5mm) has dial feet, with date position

3235 is a 41mm submariner movement (28.5mm) VR version is based on 3135, VS version takes gen 3235 parts, hard to find $$$, VR3235 is pressure fit dial no feet.

3132 (used in 39mm Explorer, OP 39 and Cellini Time) is larger with a diameter 30.97mm vs 28.5mm for the 3130, and is equiped with paraflex shock system.

3130 is used in 36mm Explorer, OP36, no date subs 114060 (28.5mm)

3230 is used in 41mm no date sub (28.5mm) probably based off 3235, probably pressure fit dial no feet.

 

I pondered using/buying a date sub or just the movement, better reliable VR3135, slap on my gen dial, gen hands, very nice! great success!

But this movement has a stupid ghost date position on the crown, crap. I don't know if there is a way to eliminate it, if there is it's probably beyond my capability.

What about using a OP36 or 36mm Explorer or 40mm No date sub  and stealing the fancy new 3130 that just came out.

I still need to find out if it has a ghost date setting. I believe it doesn't and would be a great candidate (update: it has no ghost date:))

.Also need to read the EWF 36mmEXP review  to find out if its a VR/SH/SA

GMF exp 36mm is SA3230 
 

 

[Stolen from RWI]

{Originally posted by Cadows View Post

 "can VS3235 be modified to 3230 and removing the crown ghost position? Thanks"

"VS can be modded using 3230 parts, and VR using 3130 parts. Both will work! "

there’s no 3230 clone as far as I’m aware so you got to go gen/swap the whole thing for a VR3235 you can mod with VR3130 parts (not recommended)

What about using a VS 114060 no date 40mm sub with VS3130? no ghost position! short crown pull, do dial feet fit ( I believe so)

[Stolen from RWI]

"No ghost position and not a long pull like the vr3130. It really doesn't get any better than this"

What about using a JVS/CLEAN 114060 no date 40mm sub with VR3130? no ghost position! long pull,  do dial feet fit ( I believe so)

 

Convert 3135 to 3130

It's a different top plate, minute pinion, hour wheel and different keyless works on the sh3130

 

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I am keen to go the ETA route, I can modify it, swap it, buy another easier, can impress all my friend when I tell them my hack job of a watch has a real swiss movement, winning!

Probably can't find gen 214270 MK2 hands anyways. If and when I do I may swap everything over.

I need to look into having the BP hands relumed by a professional  to keep up with the new dial.

I need to look into a single post I read saying that the case/lugs could use reshaping

Find out if my 22mm dial feet position will fit a 28.5mm VS3130 so I don't have to hack saw them off (pretty sure it will)

Find out if airking 116900 40mm hand set is same as explorer

This was supposed to go in my 42mm Planet Ocean, but now it's my candidate for my explorer.

The Planet Ocean is now getting a 2892, because I haven't bit off more than I can chew apparently, yah baby yah!

That's it for now, I have more reading to do on 3130 movements and update this a bit with findings.

 

 

[Rx4Time 1,472]

The explorer one 39 mm was always a personal favorite of mine. I used to have one in stupidly, I let it go.  Since you're down the rabbit hole already, I would probably do the genuine ETA movement while you're at it. Subscribed and enjoying following! 

[Rx4Time 1,472]

as far as the crown, a 603 will fit but not be correct markings.

[WatchGeek5711 172]

9 hours ago, Rx4Time said:

The explorer one 39 mm was always a personal favorite of mine. I used to have one in stupidly, I let it go.  Since you're down the rabbit hole already, I would probably do the genuine ETA movement while you're at it. Subscribed and enjoying following! 

i purchased a gen 39 long time ago, never found a nwbig rep anymore. 

gotta agree the Explorer in 39 has "the vibe" for watch collectors.. 

its not a convo starter, its just a watch.. absolutely love it.

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Was doing a bunch of reading trying to figure out if this larger dial had feet in the same spot as a VR3135.

I’m a dumbass and realized I had a spare VR3186 GMT movement on my bench.

This should be the same layout as a 3135 or clone 3130. 
Looks like my gen dial will fit a clone 3130 just fine.

 

Dial feet positions

My gen dial feet 22.2mm apart at 2:30 and 7:30

ETA roughly 24.5mm apart at 2:30 and 8:30

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I realize people have mentioned that a gen dial will fit on an ARF explorer but it was nice to confirm some things myself. I haven’t yet found an actual thread proving someone has done it.

This also confirms my suspicion that a 3132 explorer and a 2824 likely have a similar case but with a different movement holder/spacer. Here are some pics showing the difference between 2824 and gen clone 3186GMT (should be similar to 3135/3130)

 

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Looks like four options for now:

1 - Buy an ARF with the crap rehaut engravings and the mediocre SH3135 (but better than SA)

This has no ghost date position.

       {Better bracelet}, swap dial without cutting feet, use this case or my BP316L case,  done.

        Gen hands in future, swap to 3130 later in the future if need be.

 

2- Buy a VR or VS 3130 or a whole 114060 no date sub. Has no ghost date position:)

      Buy a JF/GF/BP with 3132 for the movement spacer and hands. {worse bracelet}, sell my BP as stock.

     Swap dial without cutting feet, gen hands in future.

 

3 -Buy a VR or VS 3130 or a whole 114060 no date sub. Has no ghost date position:)

      Buy a ARF with 3132 for the movement spacer and hands and good bracelet, use this case or my BP case whichever is better.

     Swap dial without cutting feet, gen hands in future.

 

4 - Use my ETA 2824, modify the keyless works with a fancy hooky springy part and slap it in my 316L BP a2824. Give up on the hard to find and $$$ gen hands. Have an awesome movement.

This means cutting off the dial feet, and if I want gen hands (if I can find them) either broaching them holes bigger (uh, yikes) or changing out some gear wheel things.

Which makes it that much more a pain in the ass to swap movements later ect.

The H4 wheel on the TC or ETA 2824 is 2.7mm

3035/3130/3135 hands size 95/140/22

28X ETA hands size 90/150/25

 

ETA convert to no date:

Ofrie 445/1327 set bridge for ETA 2801-2  $7.80usd plus ludicrous shipping.

https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?/topic/148254-removing-the-phantom-date-set-from-an-a28242836/

 

EDIT: I just found this post where navichief just filed down the hump in the middle of the part to create two positions. Quick fix for those outside the US that don’t want to pay the high ofrei shipping fees

Dial feet replacement

https://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?/topic/129918-changing-dial-feet-location-quick-tutorial/&tab=comments#comment-1981375

 

Extremely torn between using an Asian movement or ETA and having to cut off the dial feet. My plan in the meantime is to look out for an ARF and compare the case finishing/bracelet.(just missed one, damn)

Then wait until I have the parts to modify the 2824 to no date. See how difficult it is. It can always go in my BB58 or ranger if I don’t use it here.

[Rx4Time 1,472]

This is just me thinking out loud but can you drill the movement plate versus cutting the feet off of the genuine dial?

[APjumbo 3,031]

2 hours ago, Rx4Time said:

This is just me thinking out loud but can you drill the movement plate versus cutting the feet off of the genuine dial?

I read one post where someone did that, but they didn’t explain how. Then another post (on RWG I believe) where it was mentioned and was believed to not be possible.

Another person years ago was attempting to use a 17mm or so wide eta and fit it between the feet. But it needs a custom movement holder.

I do have access to a lathe, and friendly machinists at work but machining up parts seems troublesome.

 

The only reason to not remove the feet is it will depreciate the dial.  If if I’m never going full gen and never planning to sell my creation then that doesn’t really matter. I just don’t want to jump in too fast when there could be alternatives I haven’t thought of like drilling the eta plate.

[Rx4Time 1,472]

My big concern with clipping the dial feet is the dial could potentially rotate if you're using dial dots.   Another option I've seen discussed is some watchsmith's will resolder the dial feet in the correct position for the ETA movement.

[APjumbo 3,031]

16 minutes ago, Rx4Time said:

My big concern with clipping the dial feet is the dial could potentially rotate if you're using dial dots.   Another option I've seen discussed is some watchsmith's will resolder the dial feet in the correct position for the ETA movement.

I just found NCrichs thread on adding new feet, edited it into a post above. Seems pretty simple, just don’t know if the wide base end will hold the dial too high. 
 

After much reading about others modding I have learned how swapping movements effects “hands” height from the dial if spacing the dial too far away. Also read about how it poorly effects date magnification under cyclops. Luckily I don’t have that problem with the explorer but it is good learning regardless. There are a lot of variables I had never considered before.

ordered dial feet 

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Quick update, picked up an ARF explorer. Pretty excited to do a photo comparison between it and the BP in a few weeks time when it arrives. We can see if the Rehaut is as crap as they say it is.

Just missed a JF on M2M, would have been fun to compare all three.

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ARF arrived.

pics of hands, ARF on left (#3 missing)

ARF indices look like crap compared to BP, but could also be due to angle/light of photo.

ARF minute hand looks sharper, the other hands look very similar to me, except the edges of the ARF look a bit smoother most the time, again, light and reflection are deceiving.

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Bracelet, ARF (left,top( is well known to be better.

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Case

ARF on top or left

BP crystal sits higher (1.10mm to top of bezel)

BP crystal is 32.63x1.85

BP bezel is 2.33mm thick

ARF crystal sits about 0.60mm above bezel (total 2.8mm thick)

ARF crystal is 32.68x1.83

ARF bezel approx 2.37 thick

ARF engravings are deeper

ARF rehaut is smaller printing and smaller crown

 

[APjumbo 3,031]

Tough decision but decided to go with the full ARF. The rehaut is bad and I wanted a Swiss movement but I think the pros outweigh the cons. Could have also chosen the BP case with ARF bracelet and SH3135 (seems to fit, just need to also swap movement holder) 

After eyeballing the bezel and crystal with gen I think the ARF is closer. I don’t have a keen eye for those details though so hard to say just comparing internet pics.

Also, really really hard to tell but I think the ARF brushing on lugs looks a hair darker, I thought 904L was suppose to be lighter, but that’s another argument.

 

Crown removal, and a quick polish.

 

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Gen crown tube 24-5330 doesn’t seem to want to screw on. I am hesitant to apply much force in fear of stripping threads. Don’t have a tool so am using tweezers/rodico. It’s only just barely catching the first thread.

Trying to look up specs on thread sizes for these.

Found this great post.

May have to run a 2.5min.25 tap down the hole. I only have the larger 3mm tap handy so may just use the ARF crown tube. Water tested to 6 bar anyways.

https://rwg.cc/topic/137889-crown-info/

 

edit- looks like threads are different pitch. Fudge.

Gen 5330 tube won’t fit ARF case without re tapping. Gen crown won’t fit ARF tube either. It just feels tight and grindy, don’t want to apply much force. ARF Tube diameter looks bigger.

ARF left, Gen right.

Thought I would test the BP for reference. Gen tube 24-5330 seems to thread onto the BP case no problem.

BP tube on left, gen on right.

Gen crown fits BP tube no problem. Everything threads on nicely. WTF.

 

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Crowns

ARF left, Gen mid, BP w/2824 right

 

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SEL

Both look good on an ARF bracelet. I might even suggest that it looks best BP case ARF bracelet. 
Springbars are 2mm w/ 1.2mm tip

BP top, ARF bottom

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Decided to go with BP case as it fits the gen crown and tube better.

Trying to fit the ARF crystal and bezel as I prefer it. 
ARF bracelet 

ETA2824. Modded with no ghost position.

Switching out the keyless piece to create the no date position was about the easiest thing I’ve done so far.

remove date disk holder thing, unscrew old part, screw new part in halfway, set spring on it over, screw in the rest of the way, re install date disc plate.