Hi to All from Mobius.

[Mobius Klein 3]

Here to learn, have some misconceptions quashed (no doubt) and to hopefully buy my first Super Clone (hope that's the correct terminology.

BFN

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mobius Klein

[FudgyDocker 3,512]

We usually go for "High-end Replica", but it's just terminology at the end of the day.

[Mobius Klein 3]

12 minutes ago, FudgyDocker said:

We usually go for "High-end Replica", but it's just terminology at the end of the day.

Ty, FD

[fatarms 7,843]

Welcome bud.   I two all the noobs here to read for 2 weeks before buying anything.  I wish I had done that...

[Mystery Shopper 5,887]

Hello & Welcome

[Mobius Klein 3]

8 hours ago, fatarms said:

Welcome bud.   I two all the noobs here to read for 2 weeks before buying anything.  I wish I had done that...

Good advice fatarms, ty.  I would appreciate a PM some time about what went wrong for you.

[Mobius Klein 3]

8 hours ago, Mystery Shopper said:

Hello & Welcome

Ty Mystery Shopper.

 

[fatarms 7,843]

4 hours ago, Mobius Klein said:

Good advice fatarms, ty.  I would appreciate a PM some time about what went wrong for you.

Wasn't anything too involved, just that I bought a time bomb A7750 Daytona right out of the gate.  If I had read about those movements with the seconds @6, I probably would've avoided buying that as my first watch.

[Mobius Klein 3]

9 minutes ago, fatarms said:

Wasn't anything too involved, just that I bought a time bomb A7750 Daytona right out of the gate.  If I had read about those movements with the seconds @6, I probably would've avoided buying that as my first watch.

ty fatarms, will check into this. was going to ask you what "timebomb" meant but have done some quick searches, my education begins.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Mobius Klein

[Mobius Klein 3]

Sorry to harp on this but The Daytona and Submariner are two of my favourite watches so I am keen to find out more.  Thanks to fatarms I have become aware that Some rep Daytonas are nicknamed "Timebombs" because the sub movements can fail without prior warning due-to (possibly) under using the features.  From what I understand the problems arose when Rolex shifted the running seconds sub-dial from the 9 o/clock to the 6 o'clock position. 

Can/do modern gen Daytonas suffer similar/related issues?

https://awadwatches.com/product/1990-vintage-rolex-16520-daytona-zenith-inverted-6-l-serial-unpolished/

 

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Mobius Klein
typos

[GenTLe 1,511]

1 minute ago, Mobius Klein said:

Sorry to harp on this but The Daytona and Submariner are two of my favourite watches so I am keen to find out more.  Thanks to fatarms I have become aware that Some rep Daytonas are nicknamed "Timebombs" because the sub movements can fail without preior warning due-to (possibly) under using the features.  From what I understand the problems arose when Rolex shifted the running seconds sub-dial from the 9 o/clock to the 6 o'clock position. 

Can/do gen Daytonas suffer similar/related issues?

Nope, the problem arose from the fact that replica watch makers used 7750 ETA (clone) movements as base for their daytona. And 7750 movements have this configuration (hours at 6, minutes at 12, running seconds at 9):

They modded these 7750 to invert hours and running seconds and move minutes at 3...

These movements, already quite delicate by themselves, are a disaster when modded that way, other than too thick and making the fake daytonas way too thick too.

Gen Daytonas of course do not have such issue as they use a completely different movement.

Good replica ones are those with Rolex replica movements (i.e. Clean Factory, ~800$ each...) which, having the same movement as genuine rolex (cloned, and nearly identical, like 99%), perform 99% like the gen too. Or the ARF ones, cheaper and with 7750 but that movement has been modded in a different way and is much more reliable (just beware that the chrono minute and hour counters are fixed, only the chronograph second hand and the running seconds at 9 are working, other than the main hour and minute hands). Arf uses the same 7750 installed into IWC reps like the chrono portuguese, which is slim and proved to work well.

[Mobius Klein 3]

That's great info GenTLe, much appreciated,

Mobius

[fatarms 7,843]

Submariner - Go for VSF factory if you're looking for the modern 116610 and 126610 models

Daytona - Go for the Clean (CF) or Better Factory (BTF) models for the newer ceramics

^^ These models have actual clones of the Rolex movements, not clone ETA movements that have been reworked to mimic Rolex movement functions

 

[Mobius Klein 3]

1 hour ago, fatarms said:

Submariner - Go for VSF factory if you're looking for the modern 116610 and 126610 models

Daytona - Go for the Clean (CF) or Better Factory (BTF) models for the newer ceramics

^^ These models have actual clones of the Rolex movements, not clone ETA movements that have been reworked to mimic Rolex movement functions

 

thx, fatarms, will probably do more research before I get the Daytona.  How much should I be paying (ball-park) for a top end Sub?

[tribefan 6,768]

43 minutes ago, Mobius Klein said:

thx, fatarms, will probably do more research before I get the Daytona.  How much should I be paying (ball-park) for a top end Sub?

https://jtime.io/us/search/VSF?cat=172

Prices will be the same across TD's. It may vary by $10-20 usd, if that.

[Mobius Klein 3]

Ty tribefan.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Mobius Klein
long answer cut short.

[Mobius Klein 3]

On 19/07/2022 at 14:04, GenTLe said:

Nope, the problem arose from the fact that replica watch makers used 7750 ETA (clone) movements as base for their daytona. And 7750 movements have this configuration (hours at 6, minutes at 12, running seconds at 9):

They modded these 7750 to invert hours and running seconds and move minutes at 3...

These movements, already quite delicate by themselves, are a disaster when modded that way, other than too thick and making the fake daytonas way too thick too.

Gen Daytonas of course do not have such issue as they use a completely different movement.

Good replica ones are those with Rolex replica movements (i.e. Clean Factory, ~800$ each...) which, having the same movement as genuine rolex (cloned, and nearly identical, like 99%), perform 99% like the gen too. Or the ARF ones, cheaper and with 7750 but that movement has been modded in a different way and is much more reliable (just beware that the chrono minute and hour counters are fixed, only the chronograph second hand and the running seconds at 9 are working, other than the main hour and minute hands). Arf uses the same 7750 installed into IWC reps like the chrono portuguese, which is slim and proved to work well.

Am I correct in assuming that the high end Daytona reps have the 4130 movement?

[tribefan 6,768]

1 hour ago, Mobius Klein said:

Am I correct in assuming that the high end Daytona reps have the 4130 movement?

Most do now but not all, it should be in the description from the TD. These are good clone movements, but they are not bulletproof, and if they break parts are very hard to get. 

[Mobius Klein 3]

Thanks, not good news for me, I am veering towards not bothering with a Daytona at all.

[OLDBLOKE74 7,112]

welcome

If you buy a chronograph  rep I suggest that you use the chrono function sparingly, ensuring that the stop and reset pushers are used in the right sequence  - just a suggestion, but even on the best made gens they can incur damage on chrono modules and with careless date setting 

Just my opinion 

[Mobius Klein 3]

Thanks guys.  Do the same pitfalls and cautionary tales also apply if I go for an Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch?

[OLDBLOKE74 7,112]

1 hour ago, Mobius Klein said:

Thanks guys.  Do the same pitfalls and cautionary tales also apply if I go for an Omega Speedmaster Moonwatch?

Handbag section is along the next isle on the right …..

I may have been alarmist ! I have reps well over 10 years old and never had a problem with them - I have also had unreliable gens from Rolex and Breitling

Enjoy the hobby amigo 

[Mobius Klein 3]

1 hour ago, OLDBLOKE74 said:

Handbag section is along the next isle on the right …..

I may have been alarmist ! I have reps well over 10 years old and never had a problem with them - I have also had unreliable gens from Rolex and Breitling

Enjoy the hobby amigo 

Thx buddy. Any recent purchases from TDs here?

[Intresting 21,712]

Mary Watch is my go to.  Great service.  Great QC.  And good to deal with if and when things do go wrong.  And, being the reps, they do invariably go wrong. 
Email her with your choices.

Daytona 4130 movements are great.  They also take gen parts.   I won;t bother with 7750 based ones.  

There is no good reps of the moon watch. IF you really want one.  shell out for a gen.   Its iconic.

[Mobius Klein 3]

On 11/08/2022 at 22:54, Intresting said:

Mary Watch is my go to.  Great service.  Great QC.  And good to deal with if and when things do go wrong.  And, being the reps, they do invariably go wrong. 
Email her with your choices.

Daytona 4130 movements are great.  They also take gen parts.   I won;t bother with 7750 based ones.  

There is no good reps of the moon watch. IF you really want one.  shell out for a gen.   Its iconic.

More useful insights to file away, many thx.