Settle Down Everyone

[sfa437 0]

Jesus fucking Christ- I leave for a couple days and spend some time on RG and see what happens??

 

First off congrats sconey ya bastard! I had my fingers, toes, eyes and nuts crossed my number would come up. Crossing the nuts took a lot of doing too

 

My uninformed .02 since I missed the original thread but here goes.....

 

I personally know Novesh and have hung out with him not only at the GTG events but outside watch related activities. He is a thoroughly professional police officer and that compliment is coming from a 12 year LE veteran and isn't tossed out lightly. Yeah he comes off as hardcase on here but for a street cop he's got his shit together. FWIW a lot of the attitude comes from being as cynical and jaded a human being as you can possibly be. It's a defense mechanism to keep you from going fucking nuts and winding up in a clock tower with a rifle in Texas. The worst humanity has to offer gets free passes on a daily basis while us cops walk around with huge targets on our back. Yes, we chose the life, or it chose us, but it does not change the frustration involved when you see the fucker who was selling smack to 6th graders out on the street again before you finish filling out your arrest report.

 

I don't know Joey outside of the forums but we've walked the same paths as well. While you went career military and wound up playing in the sandbox, I did 4 years active, then cop then PMC so I do know where you're coming from. What you saw coming from Novesh was no different than us having the opinions of haji that we do. If your crew is anything like mine we'd talk for hours about how fucked up haji was and the desire to put 2 in the chest and one in the face of every IP/IA asshole we came across that day shaking us down for smokes/nades/ammo/cigarettes/cash etc.

 

There's no difference- just where that anger is directed. In our case it was the corrupt, thieving Iraqis and in Novesh's case it's thieving, murdering skells. Matter of fact the only difference in our opinion is geographical location.

 

As a cop I'd be the first one to say "You shoot a cop you go the the morgue- not jail". Did my personal opinion or beliefs change the fact that more often than not the perp went to jail... fuck no! This is where professionalism takes over and the rules of the game override personal belief. Novesh does his job, does it well and is simply voicing frustration at a system skewed to favor those who deserve it the least.

 

There really is no moral high ground on either side here guys. I'd guarn-fucking-tee that if you ever sat down together after a couple beers you'd be swapping war stories and laughing your balls off. From what I've seen Joey's as stand-up kind of guy as you'll find anywhere and the same goes for Novesh.

 

So settle the fuck down. You all took away my honor of having the first and only thread requiring moderator intervention dammit!

[JohnG 41]

I have no problem with the feuding - it once was a part of this forum, it happened from time to time, some people bitched about it but it was like life - sometimes it was just a little ugly, but in the end we had to work it out ourselves like adults, EVEN IF WE DIDN'T ALWAYS ACT LIKE IT.

 

What if far more disturbing to me is when I get pm's telling me to stop my "infantile" behavior when I am expressing my deeply felt feelings about this forum.

 

My last thread in this forum was binned and locked. In ALL OF MY TIME AT RWG this has NEVER happened to me.

 

I have made a HUGE effort in the past year to take the concerns of others seriously and help build the content of the this forum and to respect certain people's wishes about reserving GD for watch post and keeping content where it belongs. I didn't always agree with the way things were done but I always felt free to express my opinion and that my ideas were respected even if and when they were not the best or most popular.

 

Regretfully I no longer feel that way. I am extremely angry not because of some tiff between members but because of the way I have been treated and reprimanded for expressing my opinion.

 

If I am only welcome here when I am on my best behavior then this forum has lost the thing I most cherished about the OLD forum.

 

Not everyone will understand why I am upset because they do not understand the history of this forum or of my own experiences here and what this place has always meant to me (or why). I wish I could explain but I just don't have the energy or motivation to do so.

 

Suffice it to say, that though it breaks my heart to say it, this forum is no longer my home.

[oscarmadfish 0]

oscar is lost ? WTF has happend ?

[JoeyB 0]

John,

 

If you have a "best behavior" I don't think many of us wants to see it. You are johng, and I think most of us like it that way.

I think I do at least somewhat understand what you are saying, and feeling. And I don't think you are wrong. Maybe we just need a little more right this time. This is your home, you helped build it just as you have your own house in Spain, beautifully. Every now and then some mud gets tracked through the living room, it happens. But we don't leave it there, we clean it up when we're done. That's all that happened here. We're sure to track some mud through it again some day. But we should have some consideration for the cleaning lady. Umm...well, you know what I mean.

[KBH 7]

JohnG, this place will always be your home......... You're one of the Founding Fathers

 

I know you're pissed off now but you really ought to shrug it off and move on. Feeding trolls is really not that fulfilling in the long run.

 

Sometimes it's better to break up a fist fight before somebody pulls a gun.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[oscarmadfish 0]

nice words joey

[sfa437 0]

John we love ya man.

 

I'd even let ya borrow the wife for a weekend if ya promised to hose her down before you brought her back

[greg_r 81]

John and I have had an argument about this and maybe I didn't express myself as well as I should have.

 

However, the kind of shitfest we've experienced can kill a forum dead if left unchecked, and I found myself pushed into a position where I simply had no choice but to react - for the good of the forum as a whole. As most of you know, I have a policy of leaving well alone and I dislike the necessity that brought me to moderate three threads over the last couple of days.

 

I have no problem with ANY of the people involved and I hope that cooler heads will prevail and that we can move on.

 

I would, however, want to make one thing clear - John will always be welcome on ANY board I manage... uhmm... 'clean' . We've butted heads many times, but I still consider him a good friend.

 

Settling down is a good idea - thanks sfa. This is usually a very friendly board - and that's one of it's strengths. I'm sincerely hoping it'll be a loooooooooooong time before anything gets moderated here again.

[onzenuub 307]

What are you in usa filling the turkeys with, jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

[sconehead 5]

John, you have a pm...

[KBH 7]

What are you in usa filling the turkeys with, jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

 

I think the turkeys have been dosed with something evil. Last night we had 12 people over for dinner. One drunk knocked over a full glass of red wine all over himself, the tablecloth and the Persian carpet. Another one left his girlfriend at our house crying and we had to drive her home. My brother in law was telling his wife to "shut the fuck up". She kept threatening to leave him and let him walk home.

 

It was either the turkey or the open bar, not sure which. The other 6 of us had good time.

:paddy_beer: :paddy_beer:

[sfa437 0]

I spent my Thanksgiving drinking with my dad (NEVER try to outdrink an Irishman with a brogue) and listening to my mother-in-laws mindless drivel regarding her own special version of Catholicism.

 

The whiskey helped the latter part be more tolerable

[KBH 7]

I spent my Thanksgiving drinking with my dad (NEVER try to outdrink an Irishman with a brogue) and listening to my mother-in-laws mindless drivel regarding her own special version of Catholicism.

 

The whiskey helped the latter part be more tolerable

 

Being both an Irishman and and brought up a Catholic I understand and agree with you completely.

[PatronSaintofChainsaws 1]

Meh. I seem to recall me and JohnG arguing opposing views in a couple of political thread over at RG more than once, yet we can walk away from it and still be friendly. I don't see why the recent threads had to break down to the point of name-calling between members. I'll bet if everyone was face-to-face, we wouldn't have seen a quarter of the unpleasantness that we saw.

 

Also, I love Onze's addition to his sig.

[NFleischer 4,355]

i'm not sure what this feud is about, but i'm hoping nobody feels compelled to

leave the group. we need all the support around here- remember what this is about.

in the words of the great Dave 123 "they're just chinese toys", we're not making the world safe for democracy guys.

Edited November 27, 2009 by NFleischer

[Novesh 0]

Thanks sfa for your post, its fairly accurate to say that when someone sits down face to face, 9/10 of the things said on this board would not be taken out of context, and most of them would not even be said face to face. Though you know, as much as I do, neither one of us are afraid to speak our minds, no matter what the occasion or situation.

 

Biggest reason why I left RG is because of threads and trolling like what I have seen here in these past two threads, deliberate, none-stop, and pointless. I love how everyone is just trying to let things be and move on. Sadly things do not work that way, I wish they did but they do not. Those members will still harbor ill regards and sabotage threads in the future. I've seen it happen for the last fifteen years, and this is no different.

[pollux1 3]

Thanks sfa for your post, its fairly accurate to say that when someone sits down face to face, 9/10 of the things said on this board would not be taken out of context, and most of them would not even be said face to face. Though you know, as much as I do, neither one of us are afraid to speak our minds, no matter what the occasion or situation.

 

Biggest reason why I left RG is because of threads and trolling like what I have seen here in these past two threads, deliberate, none-stop, and pointless. I love how everyone is just trying to let things be and move on. Sadly things do not work that way, I wish they did but they do not. Those members will still harbor ill regards and sabotage threads in the future. I've seen it happen for the last fifteen years, and this is no different.

Here at least, if those members harbour ill regard or attempt to sabotage your thread/contribution then you'll be able to rebutt their attempt, it won't be closed or locked. However if you continue to behave with the mental age of your shoe size then all that rains down on you is entirely your own fault. Novesh you seem a stand up guy, but JoeyB and JohnG are too. Indeed Joey Is a retired member of your armed forces, a point I make with brevity. You have pointed out how you feel when some scumbag gets less than he deserves and I agree the "tried and found guilty" should be given their own medicine, perhaps that which they would have dealt out to others would be quite justified in my eyes. I ask this of you, I consider those same forum members as brothers, just as you consider those who would stand by your side in your job your brothers too, afford my brothers the same respect you bestow upon your own.

[Novesh 0]

Thanks sfa for your post, its fairly accurate to say that when someone sits down face to face, 9/10 of the things said on this board would not be taken out of context, and most of them would not even be said face to face. Though you know, as much as I do, neither one of us are afraid to speak our minds, no matter what the occasion or situation.

 

Biggest reason why I left RG is because of threads and trolling like what I have seen here in these past two threads, deliberate, none-stop, and pointless. I love how everyone is just trying to let things be and move on. Sadly things do not work that way, I wish they did but they do not. Those members will still harbor ill regards and sabotage threads in the future. I've seen it happen for the last fifteen years, and this is no different.

Here at least, if those members harbour ill regard or attempt to sabotage your thread/contribution then you'll be able to rebutt their attempt, it won't be closed or locked. However if you continue to behave with the mental age of your shoe size then all that rains down on you is entirely your own fault. Novesh you seem a stand up guy, but JoeyB and JohnG are too. Indeed Joey Is a retired member of your armed forces, a point I make with brevity. You have pointed out how you feel when some scumbag gets less than he deserves and I agree the "tried and found guilty" should be given their own medicine, perhaps that which they would have dealt out to others would be quite justified in my eyes. I ask this of you, I consider those same forum members as brothers, just as you consider those who would stand by your side in your job your brothers too, afford my brothers the same respect you bestow upon your own.

 

Thanks for your comments, but I see however is exactly what you stated, ill attempts to sabotage a thread which had the most positive of intentions.

 

I can only do so much to stop things from escalating when there are those out there who are literally hell bent on attempting to put down what they do not know.

[pollux1 3]

Thanks sfa for your post, its fairly accurate to say that when someone sits down face to face, 9/10 of the things said on this board would not be taken out of context, and most of them would not even be said face to face. Though you know, as much as I do, neither one of us are afraid to speak our minds, no matter what the occasion or situation.

 

Biggest reason why I left RG is because of threads and trolling like what I have seen here in these past two threads, deliberate, none-stop, and pointless. I love how everyone is just trying to let things be and move on. Sadly things do not work that way, I wish they did but they do not. Those members will still harbor ill regards and sabotage threads in the future. I've seen it happen for the last fifteen years, and this is no different.

Here at least, if those members harbour ill regard or attempt to sabotage your thread/contribution then you'll be able to rebutt their attempt, it won't be closed or locked. However if you continue to behave with the mental age of your shoe size then all that rains down on you is entirely your own fault. Novesh you seem a stand up guy, but JoeyB and JohnG are too. Indeed Joey Is a retired member of your armed forces, a point I make with brevity. You have pointed out how you feel when some scumbag gets less than he deserves and I agree the "tried and found guilty" should be given their own medicine, perhaps that which they would have dealt out to others would be quite justified in my eyes. I ask this of you, I consider those same forum members as brothers, just as you consider those who would stand by your side in your job your brothers too, afford my brothers the same respect you bestow upon your own.

 

Thanks for your comments, but I see however is exactly what you stated, ill attempts to sabotage a thread which had the most positive of intentions.

 

I can only do so much to stop things from escalating when there are those out there who are literally hell bent on attempting to put down what they do not know.

Then by all means argue your point, here we take pride in allowing the members to vent their spleen, albeit within the realms of decency. Personally if i feel you are in the right I'll argue your corner until we win or lose, on the other hand if the other person is right in my opinion i'll argue their corner. We should all be thankful we have here this forum in which to do so, without the heavy handedness meted out on other forums to deal with. I for one want to protect this right afforded to us rather than tarnish it.

[Novesh 0]

Then by all means argue your point, here we take pride in allowing the members to vent their spleen, albeit within the realms of decency. Personally if i feel you are in the right I'll argue your corner until we win or lose, on the other hand if the other person is right in my opinion i'll argue their corner. We should all be thankful we have here this forum in which to do so, without the heavy handedness meted out on other forums to deal with. I for one want to protect this right afforded to us rather than tarnish it.

 

there in lies the problem.

 

how do you argue a point with someone who isn't arguing a point, but slandering and attacking you...?

[pollux1 3]

Then by all means argue your point, here we take pride in allowing the members to vent their spleen, albeit within the realms of decency. Personally if i feel you are in the right I'll argue your corner until we win or lose, on the other hand if the other person is right in my opinion i'll argue their corner. We should all be thankful we have here this forum in which to do so, without the heavy handedness meted out on other forums to deal with. I for one want to protect this right afforded to us rather than tarnish it.

 

there in lies the problem.

 

how do you argue a point with someone who isn't arguing a point, but slandering and attacking you...?

How do you argue a point? By putting forward your counterpoint in a reasoned, thoughtful way. Believe me my friend if their counterpoint to you was way off the mark your corner would be defended ad infinitum. the funny thing is both JohnG and JoeyB would be the first to support you in a valid reasoned argument......

[iabounty 8]

I would vote this thread be moved to off topic or section 8. Thats why we have them....... This is General Discussion.

[Novesh 0]

Then by all means argue your point, here we take pride in allowing the members to vent their spleen, albeit within the realms of decency. Personally if i feel you are in the right I'll argue your corner until we win or lose, on the other hand if the other person is right in my opinion i'll argue their corner. We should all be thankful we have here this forum in which to do so, without the heavy handedness meted out on other forums to deal with. I for one want to protect this right afforded to us rather than tarnish it.

 

there in lies the problem.

 

how do you argue a point with someone who isn't arguing a point, but slandering and attacking you...?

How do you argue a point? By putting forward your counterpoint in a reasoned, thoughtful way. Believe me my friend if their counterpoint to you was way off the mark your corner would be defended ad infinitum. the funny thing is both JohnG and JoeyB would be the first to support you in a valid reasoned argument......

 

Reread the death penalty thread, I argued my point until I was attacked.

 

Also neither one of them would help in any argument I would make, they both made that, very very obvious.

 

Like I said, there is nothing that can be done with certain people, and its obvious who they are.

 

If perfectly acceptable and legitimate threads become flame wars as soon as they post, well, what would you have me do?

[JoeyB 0]

Like I said, there is nothing that can be done with certain people, and its obvious who they are.

 

I agree completely.

[sfa437 0]

Will you two relax.... do I have to get Mrs. SFA to give you both a spanking????

 

Waitaminnit....... it's supposed to be a punishment not an incentive