Dial ISSUE at "2" in PAM 111 V3 Noob

[scorpion 0]

I am still not decided if I like PAMS and now with all theses serious FLAWs I will never buy one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[onzenuub 307]

I am still not decided if I like PAMS and now with all theses serious FLAWs I will never buy one !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

+ a lot

[P4GTR 0]

Noob factory dial fraw trickery.

 

 

Nice catch ALE, even if the title took a year off of my life!

[houndoggie 58]

Noob v3 111 does NOT have a flawed dial.

 

 

 

The v4, which this is, does.

 

 

[ALE7575 24]

Dear friends

 

Firstly: I WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP CURRENT AND FUTURE PAM 111 V3 BUYERS.

This is the only forum with this kind of feed-back to this thread.

 

The real problem is not the own flaw at “2”, it is that there are V3 with correct dial and others with wrong dial.

This is the matter!

 

We have try in RWI to establish what were remain flaws and REAL improvements of this V3 version to justify the price increase and to inform the future buyers about the features to be expected in a new V3.

And now, with all remaining flaws and improvements detected, a V3 batch of wrong dials appears in the market !!

 

Unfortunately not only the “2” is wrong “3” and “6” are wrong too.

See these pics from stonesix of RWI

 

Macro of the numbers

 

 

Do you imagine the disappointment of people like Jay123, Debellum, mullica, fana05, Gel-007, phoucku, rukus187… They are real disappointed buyers. They have paid to get an almost perfect V3 and they expected an almost perfect watch, like other people !!, and they see people receiving a very correct V3 and they are receiving a watch with three visible flaws at markers on the dial !!!

Please note neither at the movement nor at the caseback, flaws are ON THE DIAL!

 

Of course, such a flaws some years or even 12 months ago didn’t have big importance, but at the current quality level of the PAM replicas and the increased price and marketing of V3 they are unacceptable IMHO.

And less acceptable is the fact that there are correct dials and wrong dials together. This is the point !!

 

I wanted with my WARNING !!!!!!!! to alert buyers receiving new QC pics about this matter, I order to inform them of this situation !!!

If they consider this is not problem for them, they could accept the watch

If they consider it a serious problem, they could reject.

 

It was just an informative and WARNING thread that I put in RWI, RWG and REP GEEK.

 

That said, I will inform about the improvements to expect in a V3 and the remaining flaws.

 

V3 REAL IMPROVEMENTS (maybe some of below improvements are already included in previous versions V2, V2.5 ….)

 

- Crystal updated to single AR like gen PAM 111 with a very good optics. Be careful because some items seem to have the crystal a little too raised.

- Hands must be Pre-V type like gen. http://www.replica-w...e-v-108593.html

- Flattened and polished cannon pinion.

- Matching hands and dial superlume, certainly not as bright as the H-maker’s lume.

- CG improved to the latest standard with nice “square” inner edges. http://www.replica-w...42&postcount=10

-“A” central horizontal bar in dial inscriptions is placed higher (very, very lightly).

- Strap screws do seem a better fit, more flush

- Serial numbers in caseback are engraved more deeply.

- Improved and more visible Roller of the lever and axle.

- Nice engraved OFFICINE PANERAI on the movement plates. It semms that sometimes the last “I” is a little lower.

- No modifications concerning Swan Neck (either spring or screw), Incabloc or movement.

 

 

REMAINING FLAWS TO BE CORRECTED IN THE FUTURE:

 

- Correct Swan Neck micrometric Screw length

- Correct SHAPE in Swan Neck Spring http://www.replica-w...5&postcount=332

- “Y” shaped Incabloc http://www.replica-w...pxi-113823.html

- “Slim” crown http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1156643&postcount=269

- Gasket for the CG Pin http://www.replica-w...360-119090.html

- Brushed movement golden gears

- Improvement of OFFICINE PANERAI engraving in movement bridges

 

For more info please consult the RWI PAM GUIDE in Section PAM 111

 

"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/reference-pam-review-107365.html?t=107365

 

For your info I am including below the PAM 111 Section extracted from the RWI PAM GUIDE.

 

EVALUATION: (**) SUPER REP (M&N-series Noob, M&N-series H maker)

(**) SUPER REP best version (N-series V3 Noob)

The PAM 111 is the same as PAM 112 but with seconds@9 subdial

There is also a watch similar to PAM 111 but in all brushed Titanium version: the PAM 177.

The PAM 247 Ferretti Limited Edition is like a PAM 111 but with solid caseback with signature Ferretti.

There is a Destro version, the PAM 026 but PVD coated and Solid caseback.

The Panerai PAM 111 Luminor Marina is inspired by one of the pioneer models of Luminor which was introduced in the 1940s

The PAM 111 is one of the most famous Panerai watches and many people have been introduced in the Panerai World by this model released in 2002.

From 1997 to 2001 the Luminor Marina used the OP II movement, but in 2002 (E series) the entire "Historic" line was upgraded to use the new movement, and the Marina now contains the OP XI movement. 2002 onwards models all incorporate sapphire crystal backs, whereas the earlier models all had solid backs.

For the H series, the Luminor Marina and Base received a significant overhaul, in that the decoration on the bridges changed from the stamped Panerai to a Côtes de Geneve engraving.

The PAM 111 is a charismatic PAM, people loves it: It was very curious to see the way it “stolen” the first place of RWI Replica of the Year 2011 award from the PAM 005 or PAM 029, despite your Display caseback which denounces its evident flaws (lack of Y shape on Incabloc and usually very bad Swan Neck) http://www.replica-w...59.html?t=90559

There are good modifications of these replicas to fix above mentioned flaws. As very good example you can see the pics of an awesome work made by goin 6633 here:

http://www.replica-w....html?p=1114263

Despite above mentioned flaws (denounced by the Display caseback) the Pam 111 N and M from Noob are one of the best replica ever made. For more information read:

http://www.replica-w...down-86121.html

http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=177078

The latest versions N-series from Noob must have some improvements over the others. We say “must” because the earlier batches not always had all these improvements. We are not deliberately talking about version numbers V1-V2-V2.5-V3, because it will be useless, since there is a big confusion concerning this matter, read here.

http://www.replica-w...-vs-109433.html

From 11th Sept 2012 the "new" so-called V3 version was released. There is a thread started to determine the improvements and flaws of this V3 version:

http://www.replica-w...111-115770.html by ALE, really very supported by the PCTeam member sharrkey.

According to observations from sharrkey and ALE , the improvements we can expect are:

- Crystal updated to single AR like gen PAM 111 with a very good optics. Be careful because some items seem to have the crystal a little too raised.

- Hands must be Pre-V type like gen. http://www.replica-w...e-v-108593.html

- Flattened and polished cannon pinion.

- Matching hands and dial superlume, certainly not as bright as the H-maker’s lume.

- CG improved to the latest standard with nice “square” inner edges. http://www.replica-w...42&postcount=10

-“A” central horizontal bar in dial inscriptions is placed higher (very, very lightly).

- Strap screws do seem a better fit, more flush

- Serial numbers in caseback are engraved more deeply.

- Improved and more visible Roller of the lever and axle.

- Nice engraved OFFICINE PANERAI on the movement plates. It semms that sometimes the last “I” is a little lower.

- No modifications concerning Swan Neck (either spring or screw), Incabloc or movement.

As showed in above mentioned thread about V3, the flaws to be corrected in this V3 version are:

- “Y” shaped Incabloc http://www.replica-w...pxi-113823.html

- Long screw on Swan Neck

- Correct SHAPE in Swan Neck Spring support http://www.replica-w...5&postcount=332

- “Slim” crown http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showpost.php?p=1156643&postcount=269

- Gasket for the CG Pin http://www.replica-w...360-119090.html

- Brushed movement golden gears

- Improvement of OFFICINE PANERAI engraving in movement bridges

The "Flat" crown to be corrected to "Slim" crown is a curious flaw showed by Rwolf in above mentioned thread, about the thickness of the contour (wheel rim) of the Noob crown. This thickness is bigger than gen one, and the H maker crowns are like gen. To well understand this issue see below pic:

According to Rwolf this Noob “Fat” crown is appropriate for old models without Roller lever, but models with Roller are fitted with “Slim” crowns. Therefore, H maker crown is more accurate for the new series (K-L-M-N-O…) with Roller. See posts #259->#274 in above mentioned thread.

See a good pictorial PAM 111 with gen strap here:

http://www.replica-w....html?p=1126478 by Del

Pictorial and comparisons with old PAM 111 H maker by Baxter:

http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=34529

There are replica versions fitted with “Swiss” movements. These "Swiss" movements are not the same of the original mounted in the current gen watches. They are, at best, a "cheap Swiss" Low beat movement with a "cheap" Novodiac shock protection system instead of Incabloc and with an horrible Swan Neck, the same or worse than which you can find in the replicas. The advice is: Save your money and get the good and accurate enough Asian movement.

The H maker models are very good Super reps too, but Noob is superior due to some differences as follows:

- Noob has better creamish colour and enbossed inscriptions on dial.

- Noob has suoerior Sandwich dial with deepest markers.

- The current Noob crystal quality and AR are similar if no better than H maker (in old versions H maker was superior).

- Cannon pinion in last version of Noob is more flattened and polished and, therefore, better than H maker CP.

- Better Noob Crown Guard (square inner edges and finish)

- Swan Neck spring and screw continues being clearly superior in H maker.

- H maker has worse finish in movement wheels and worse head shape of screws.

- H maker has printed OFFICINA PANERAI on bridges instead of engraved like in Noob and gen

PAM 111 is a perfect candidate for a first PANERAI replica.

REPLICA links:

(**)http://puretime.co/product/pam111-n-v3-noob-best-edition-on-brown-asso-leather-strap-with-pre-v-hands/ V3

(**)http://puretime.co/product/pam111-n-v3-noob-best-edition-on-black-calf-leather-strap-with-pre-v-hands/ V3

(**)http://puretime.co/product/pam111-n-noob-best-edition-on-black-calf-leather-strap-with-pre-v-hands/

(**)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam111-n-noob-best-edition-on-asso-strap/

(**)http://puretime.co/product/pam111-n-noob-best-edition-on-brown-croco-leather-strap/

(**)http://www.puretime.co/product/bez-pam111-m-noob-transparent-ar-best-edition-on-black-croco-leather-strap/

(**)http://www.puretime.co/product/pam111-m-11-h-maker-edition-on-hand-stitched-brown-leather-strap/

(**)http://www.timesshop.net/12922-xfpa2280fo-noobfactory-pam111-n-v3-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-asian-6497.html V3

(**)http://www.timesshop.net/12889-xfpa2180-noobfactory-pam111-n-v3-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-asian-6497.html V3

(**)http://www.timesshop.net/12229-xfpa6120-pam111-luminor-marina-black-dial-ss-ru-noobfactory-1-1-best-v-asian-6497.html

(**)http://www.timesshop.net/10756-pa3400-pam111-luminor-marina-black-dial-ss-lt-asian-6497.html

(**)http://www.timesshop.net/12369-pa7210b-pam111-m-h-factory-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-asian-6497.html

(**)http://www.timesshop.net/12221-pa6100b-pam111-luminor-marina-black-dial-ss-lt-h-maker-1-1-v-asian-6497.html

(**)http://www.timesshop.net/12220-pa6090b-pam111-luminor-marina-black-dial-ss-lt-h-maker-1-1-v-asian-6497.html

(**)http://asian7750.com/cn/product_show.asp?big_pid=&ps_id=&P_id=2167&ti=

(**)http://www.marvellousreplica.com/products_detail.php?ProId=661

(**)http://www.hontwatch.com/productdetails_2900.html

(**)http://www.trustytime.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_49&produ cts_id=9172

http://www.replica-w...111h-75554.html

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k515/dsnwatches/Pam%2044mm%20steel%20luminor%20%20watches/New%20Pam%20111M%20watch/

GEN links:

http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Historic_7.html

http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vendome/marina.html

http://www.panerai.com/s_page.xpd?id_lingua=2&id_sezione=16&id_prodotto=6 45&id_categoria=34

 

 

If the exclamation points are the problem. Please mod edit the title.

OMG! A flaw at 12 on dial in a V3 ultimate expensive replica is not a problem and some exclamation points are serious !!

 

Thanks for your kind attention

ALE

[scorpion 0]

Ale that is a serious post man, maybe you need rehab to overcome this PAM obsession!!!! (JOKING!)

Boy am I glad I din't get into Pams but then I am happy if a rep actually tells the time and looks 90% right!

 

Ale I do get this and full respect as you obviously know your stuff but I don't just have enough hours in the day to get that serious about a rep watch and my eyesights shit anyway so as long as a 2 is a 2 I am ok!

[Luthier 1]

That's super anal. I can imagine, how much all dealers love you, Ale. You're on all "Fuck off!" list, for sure. You did a really great job, investigating and detecting these microscopic flaws, but trust me- rep. factories don't give a shit about it.

[Del 4,459]

Thanks ALE - this is great information for those of us who actually do care about the little details.

 

I'll be honest, I saw the QC pics from Jay and I never spotted the wrong dial so to have people like you in the forum who can can advise (and keep us right!) on matters such as this is just superb imo.

[Realism 72]

Those members that you posted couldn't even tell a difference before they posted their QC pics to the public... not to bash you ALE... but making such !!!!!!!!!! and ************** as if such flaw will make the watch blow up....

 

Again, there are better things to worry about like getting a broken watch at hand

[Realism 72]

so the lesson i learned now... is that I should post my QC pics to the public for review? no?

[Jay123 0]

In my defence i know f all about pams, hence why i posted it.

 

Going off a post on another rep forum, a dealer has spoken to noobfactory and apparantly they have changed suppliers, looks like we're doomed, maybe easier to just ask for a refund off the dealer im buying off

[Realism 72]

Like how you didn't know these to post to TRF eh??

 

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=105455

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=124429

 

nice nice nice

[KeNnY 29]

Great to know the PAM111 V3 noob I bought from marvellous replica a month ago was the good dial batch ! this looks like to be the V4 so they shited up something, because the V3 was already perfect rep and most fo the people buying V3 would never buy any newer versions. It is like with Hublot Diver where V2 is MUCH MUCH better quality rep then the V3. Thank you Ale for your informative posts. I always enjoy reading them, because I learn more about the gens and reps difference

[dalboy 2]

Having read the OP..and a few pages since..I say....way to Anul for me..

 

 

" IT'S A REP !! "" " WANT PERFECTION ...BUY THE GEN "....

 

Byeeeee.

 

Dal..........

[ALE7575 24]

Thanks ALE - this is great information for those of us who actually do care about the little details.

 

I'll be honest, I saw the QC pics from Jay and I never spotted the wrong dial so to have people like you in the forum who can can advise (and keep us right!) on matters such as this is just superb imo.

 

Thanks Del my friend

You know well my job and you understand me

ALE

[Crusader 0]

Those members that you posted couldn't even tell a difference before they posted their QC pics to the public... not to bash you ALE... but making such !!!!!!!!!! and ************** as if such flaw will make the watch blow up....

 

Again, there are better things to worry about like getting a broken watch at hand

 

+1

 

People will reject perfectly good watches from dealers QC pics, based on this topic.

 

It's like saying Planet ocean reps hour markers are 0.1mm too long compared to the gen, I don't want it.

[gB. 0]

Firstly: I WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP CURRENT AND FUTURE PAM 111 V3 BUYERS.

This is the only forum with this kind of feed-back to this thread.

 

Welcome to the nuthouse.

 

Some of the members here don't actually own any watches, let alone a Panerai replica. They're just here for the drama and craziness, which your type of communication delivery method seems to invite. I think that is why you are getting such a reaction.

 

But your point and post here are valid and informational for those in the market for a PAM 111 v3. Thank you for posting.

[HeavyKrush 16]

Nice job Ale. Can't tell you how many times Ives used your guide.

[ALE7575 24]

@ Luthier, Realism and dalboy

 

I'm super anal when I'm studying replicas but never when Im buying them.

It is important to anlize the flaws in order to get better replicas in the future. And we have got it during last years by the analysis of some fans and the courage of some makers

 

But you can consult several dealers I never (almost) reject a QC pics because I know very well that we are deañling with reps. And as said by Realism it is more important that they work.

 

As you surely know I'm the PAM Section Moderator in RWI, and I have very good relationship with several dealers and they are cooperating with myself in RWI in the RWI Pam Consulting Team. Ask Angus, Mark, Marvellous, Wiz, goin .... they are very good friends of mine. Even Angus has answered my RWI thread giving thanks for the WARNING and saying he will contact Noob to get an explanation and to try solutions.

 

Hiding things is not the correct way in this replica world

 

But in this case the most important thing is that NOWADAYS THERE ARE CORRECT AND WRONG DIALS AT THE SAME TIME and it is not fair for people receiving the wrong ones.

 

ALE

Edited December 9, 2012 by ALE7575

[LightGeek 25]

@ Luthier, Realism and dalboy

 

I'm super anal when I'm studying replicas but never when Im buying them.

It is important to anlize the flaws in order to get better replicas in the future. And we have got it during last years by the analysis of some fans and the courage of some makers

 

But you can consult several dealers I never (almost) reject a QC pics because I know very well that we are deañling with reps. And as said by Realism it is more important that they work.

 

As you surely know I'm the PAM Section Moderator in RWI, and I have very good relationship with several dealers and they are cooperating with myself in RWI in the RWI Pam Consulting Team. Ask Angus, Mark, Marvellous, Wiz, goin .... they are very good friends of mine. Even Angus has answered my RWI thread giving thanks for the WARNING and saying he will contact Noob to get an explanation and to try solutions.

 

Hiding things is not the correct way in this replica world

 

But in this case the most important thing is that NOWADAYS THERE ARE CORRECT AND WRONG DIALS AT THE SAME TIME and it is not fair for people receiving the wrong ones.

 

ALE

 

Perfectly understood. Again most (if not all) people are commenting on the headless chicken type post proclaiming the world is ending (!!!!!!!!) There's nothing wrong with the info, and we're glad to have it.

 

 

 

________________

Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse the brevity of this message.

[10:10 Watch Repair 1]

@ Luthier, Realism and dalboy

 

I'm super anal when I'm studying replicas but never when Im buying them.

It is important to anlize the flaws in order to get better replicas in the future. And we have got it during last years by the analysis of some fans and the courage of some makers

 

But you can consult several dealers I never (almost) reject a QC pics because I know very well that we are deañling with reps. And as said by Realism it is more important that they work.

 

As you surely know I'm the PAM Section Moderator in RWI, and I have very good relationship with several dealers and they are cooperating with myself in RWI in the RWI Pam Consulting Team. Ask Angus, Mark, Marvellous, Wiz, goin .... they are very good friends of mine. Even Angus has answered my RWI thread giving thanks for the WARNING and saying he will contact Noob to get an explanation and to try solutions.

 

Hiding things is not the correct way in this replica world

 

But in this case the most important thing is that NOWADAYS THERE ARE CORRECT AND WRONG DIALS AT THE SAME TIME and it is not fair for people receiving the wrong ones.

 

ALE

 

Perfectly understood. Again most (if not all) people are commenting on the headless chicken type post proclaiming the world is ending (!!!!!!!!) There's nothing wrong with the info, and we're glad to have it.

 

 

 

________________

Sent from my mobile device. Please excuse the brevity of this message.

 

I agree.

 

however,

 

Does anyone understand the irony that we have this post AND posts complaining about the high cost of reps?

[Luthier 1]

Again - thinking, that rep. factories will ever take our opinions into consideration is absurd.

[houndoggie 58]

Again - thinking, that rep. factories will ever take our opinions into consideration is absurd.

 

Not directly. They chase the $$$.

[ALE7575 24]

Again - thinking, that rep. factories will ever take our opinions into consideration is absurd.

 

With all respect Luthier I disagree

This is the only way to have better replicas. If not makers would degenerate the quality. Through some professional dealers like Angus they are informed about our claims. In this way we can get replicas like the PAM 111, 005, 243, HBB V6... etc at a reasonable price.

 

Do you remember the starting with SS 316F in 2011? All the replicas made of this "new" SS were 30% more expensive than replicas made of SS 316L.

In summer of 2011 I put a thread in RWI talking about this matter:

 

SS 316L vs. 316F vs. 904L- The final VERDICT- A technical study

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/ss-316l-vs-82263.html

 

Maybe it is by chance... but nowadays we have a lot of Super replicas made of 316F at very reasonable price.

 

ALE

[kolchak 17]

I probably wouldn't have noticed the difference in QC pics & could live with either version but do appreciate knowing about it.

IMHO, a main reason we're getting such excellent reps these days is this kind of hyper focus, analism, attention to detail, etc among buyers.

thanks Ale