ALE7575 24 Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) THE LAST STEPS to the GEN in PAM Replicas – MOD GUIDE January 2013 WARNING We are studying the flaws of the best PAM replicas in order to know what are the last steps to make them almost like the gen. This thread is just a constructive criticism, because we consider these PAM replicas the most perfect in the market. Due to above mentioned, it is worth to announce these little flaws in order to inform makers and dealers about the last modifications to reach almost a 1:1 gen watch. In the same way this study could be used as a MOD GUIDE for Modders and “do it yourself” people. Most likely these corrections cannot be made at the same time and we will have to follow buying replicas of these watches. This is only a summary of the way to follow to the 1:1 gen. If we made this kind of analysis in other brand replicas, even the most accurate, surely we would find more flaws than in these Super PAM replicas. Therefore buy them like that without hesitation, because the following study is almost a microscopic analysis of merely noticeable flaws. Neither these flaws nor the modifications will have influence on the working of the watch, they are just cosmetic flaws and cosmetic modifications. In the same way, please bear in mind that we are talking about replicas 30 -50 times less expensive than a gen and we cannot get at this price level all characteristics and features 100% of the gen watch. Therefore the crystal could be a little less clear, general finish will not be as perfect as the magnificent gen finish, dial could be not as crisp and well defined as the gen, you will have to tighten the screws, to change the strap, etc… We have divided this study into two different Threads Par I & Part II : THREAD Part I The Last Steps to the Gen (Part I)–Swan Neck & Incabloc Modifications – Jan 2013 In this thread The Last Steps to the Gen Part I, we have dealt with three first flaws, which are located in the movement and more concretely in the Swan Neck device and Incabloc Shock Protection System. THREAD Part II The Last Steps to the Gen (Part II)-Crown, Pin gasket, Gears, Wheels & Engravings - Jan 2103 In this thread The Last steps to the Gen Part II, we will deal with the last four indicated flaws, which are located in the Crown, CG and Movement Gear Train, Wheels and bridges. *************************************************************************************** THREAD Part II The Last Steps to the Gen (Part II)-Crown, Pin gasket, Gears, Wheels & Engravings - Jan 2103 AKNOWLEDGEMENT: Many thanks to RWI PCTeam’s members Goin, marlin and Rwolf for their kindness providing magnificient pics of their watches and mods and a lot of info about their jobs. 3- IMPROVEMENTS IN CROWN AND CROWN GUARD The current Noob Crown Guard CG is almost perfect in shape and finish. H maker has mainly the issue of a rounded inner edges and worse finish and people are changing the H maker CG to the Noob one. Curiously H maker Crown is better than Noob Crown. As we will see below H maker Crown is “Slim” like gen but Noob Crown is “Fat”. Besides, all rep Crown either Noob or H maker have worse polished finish than gen Crown. Gen CG Pin is fitted with an elastic gasket but in replicas at this moment only Kuvarsit apply this elastic element. 3.1-CROWN IMPROVEMENTS Many people know that rep Crown either Noob or H maker have worse polished finish than gen Crown. But IMO this is a normal flaw for a replica and it is not very noticeable. Anyway, people who cannot live with this issue could make some polishing job by themselves. The "Flat" crown to be corrected to "Slim" crown is a curious and unknown flaw showed by RWI PCTeam’s Rwolf in the RWI thread dealing with PAM 111 N-series Noob V3 http://www.replica-w...111-115770.html See posts #259->#274 in above mentioned thread. The issue is the thickness of the contour (wheel rim) of the Noob crown. This Noob thickness is bigger than gen one, and H maker crowns are like gen. To well understand this issue, please see below pics. Firstly we show in FIGURE 24 the pic of the gen Crown with a thin (“Slim”) wheel rim. FIGURE 24- GEN “SLIM” CROWN And now the pics of the replica Crown in FIGURE 25 FIGURE 25- H MAKER “SLIM” CROWN & NOOB “FAT” CROWN As you can see the H maker and gen Crown are “Slim” but the Noob Crown is “Fat”. According to Rwolf this Noob “Fat” crown is appropriate for old models without Roller lever, but models with Roller are fitted with “Slim” crowns. Therefore, H maker crown is more accurate for the new series (K-L-M-N-O…) with Roller. Strangely Noob factory, in December 2012, had already in production the “Slim” Crown, because the rep PAM 360 from Noob is fitted (following the pics) with a “Slim” Crown. FIGURE 26 FIGURE 26- NOOB “SLIM” CROWN OF NEW PAM 360 (December 2012) But at this moment (February 2013) Noob is not fitting other PAM replicas with this “Slim” Crown. Most likely because Noob is using old stocks of “Fat” Crowns already produced. 3.2-THE GASKET OF CROWN GUARD PIN It is very easy to see that the operation of CG lever in replicas is uneven and not always smooth enough. But gen has a smoother running and presses better the Crown against the case. Leaving aside the superior quality of the parts, lower manufacture tolerances and strict Quality Control in gen manufacture, there is an element which aids to get the better operation of the gen CG lever. This element is an elastic plastic or hard rubber gasket in the pin of the CG serving as lever axle. Nowadays only the Kuvarsit replicas are fitted with this gasket. That is well explained by RWI PCTeam’s Rwolf in below thread: http://www.replica-w...0.html?t=119090 You can see below in FIGURE 27 the pics (Rwolf courtesy) of this Gasket in the CG pin of a rep PAM 360 form Kuvarsit. In below pic is showed from the left to the right: the Lever, the Gasket, the Pin and the CG FIGURE 27 – LEVER – GASKET – PIN & CROWN GUARD The following FIGURE 28 shows the Pin and the Gasket being introduced in the Lever hole FIGURE 28 – PIN and ITS GASKET BEING INTRODUCED IN THE LEVER HOLE The following FIGURE 29 shows the Lever without Gasket and at the right side the Lever with the Gasket introduced in the hole. FIGURE 29 – THE LEVER WITHOUT GASKET AND THE LEVER WITH GASKET INTRODUCED IN THE HOLE You can see in below FIGURE 30 gen spare parts of the CG: Pin, Gasket, Screws, Lever and even the own CG (Rwolf courtesy) FIGURE 30- GEN PARTS: CG, LEVER, PIN, GASKET AND SCREWS Nowadays I don’t know about some “official” modder making this modification of adding a gasket in the CG pin. Sometime ago I saw a modification made with the plastic cover of an electrical wire, but this material is not resistant enough for this purpose. 4-IMPROVEMENTS IN MOVEMENT: GEAR TRAIN, WHEELS AND BRIDGE INSCRIPTIONS Nowadays the manual movements A6497 have arrived to a very good level of quality, finish and even reliability. By a simple observation and mainly under the lens you can see some differences in finish but you need a very close inspection to notice the flaws. At this moment the main issues to be corrected are the brushed finish in golden movement Gear Train, the polished bevel and screws in Ratchet and Crown Wheels and the quality of inscriptions in movement bridges. In some replicas like PAM 127 and PAM 217 there is also a problem of colour of engravings. 4.1- BRUSHED AND GOLD PLATED GEAR TRAIN Below pics are in the most part RWI PCTeam’s marlin2284 courtesy. In the gen Swiss 6497 movement the Gear Train showed in below pics is made with golden gears, but the surface has satin finish very similar to a fine and nice brushed finish. FIGURE 31.a- GOLDEN SATIN GEN CENTRAL GEARS IN SWISS 6497 MOVEMENT FIGURE 31. b- GOLDEN SATIN GEN GEAR TRAIN IN SWISS 6497 MOVEMENT In above FIGURES 31.a & b we can see the nice finished gen Gears in the Swiss 6497 movement. Please note the uniform golden satin finish. The Gear Train of replica movement A-6497 has a shiny and hideous golden finish. The surface is uneven and ugly. You can see the bad finish in below FIGURES 32.a & b. FIGURE 32.a- GOLDEN SHINY AND HIDEOUS CENTRAL GEAR IN A NOOB A-6497 MOVEMENT FIGURE 32.b- GOLDEN SHINY AND HIDEOUS REP GEAR TRAIN IN NOOB A-6497 MOVEMENT Modders are making modifications in this Gear Train slightly brushing the surface of the Gears, just erasing the irregularities of Gear surfaces. This modification produces a loss of the golden colour and the Gears become more white colour as you can see in below FIGURE 33 FIGURE 33- REPLICA GEAR TRAIN BEFORE (Left) AND AFTER (Right) SLIGHT BRUSHING- COMPARISON WITH GEN GEAR TRAIN To resolve this loss of golden colour, modders like marlin are brushing completely the surface and gold plating again the gears. This treatment gives to the Gears a good finish very similar to the gen. In below FIGURE 34 you can see the Gear Train of an A-6497 movement before (at the top) and after (at the bottom) complete brushing by the modder marlin. FIGURE 34- REPLICA GEAR TRAIN BEFORE (top) and AFTER (bottom) A COMPLETE BRUSHING Above mentioned Gears are completely brushed and we must to apply a gold plating to get the gen finish. The result of this modification is showed in below FIGURE 35. FIGURE 35- REPLICA GEAR TRAIN MODIFIED LIKE GEN, BRUSHED AND GOLD PLATED As you can see we get very good and beautiful finish gen like. The differences are due to the pic angle and light conditions. 4.2- MODIFICATIONS IN RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS AND THEIR SCREWS You can see in below FIGURES 36.a & b the pics of the gen Ratchet and Crown wheels and their screws, where you can observe the nice flat head and the polished surfaces. The screw slots are well defined and nicely finished. FIGURE 36. a- GEN RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS AND SCREWS FIGURE 36.b- GEN RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS AND SCREWS 4.2.1- POLISHED BEVEL OF RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS The bevel surface of the Ratchet and Crown wheels of the replica movements are rough but the gen bevel is nicely polished as we can see in above FIGURES 36.a & b. The current replica from Noob have an improved finish and are very close to the gen parts. Anyway, modders and owners want a closer approach to the gen, and are polishing the bevel surface and even swapping with gen wheels and screws, because these parts are available. Below is showed in FIGURE 37 (marlin courtesy) the Noob rep Wheels before and after polishing. FIGURE 37- REPLICA NOOB RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS STANDARD (top) AND POLISHED (bottom) You can see that the Noob standard wheels are quite good but they look better after to be polished like gen. 4.2.2- FLATTENED AND POLISHED SCREW HEADS OF RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS The Ratchet and Crown screws in replicas have sometimes no flattened and bad polished surface. Besides, the replica screws have usually a very rough slot. In FIGURE 38 is showed the hideous slot with a very bad flattened surface. FIGURE 38- CROWN WHEEL SCREWS WITH NO FLATTENED SURFACE AND ROUGH AND BAD FINISHED SLOT. In FIGURES 39.a, b, c and d, you can see some examples of Ratchet and Crown replica screws with bad finished slot and someone with non flattened surface FIGURE 39. a – REPLICA WHEELS WITH NICE FLATTENED SCREWS AND BAD SLOTS See in FIGURE 39.b a replica with bad slot in Ratchet Wheel and non flattened and bad slot Crown Wheel screw. FIGURE 39.b– REPLICA WITH BAD SLOT IN RATCHET SCREW AND NON FLATTENED AND BAD SLOT IN CROWN SCREW And now two replica examples with Ratchet screw good enough but hideous Crown screw. FIGURE 39.c– REPLICA WITH RATCHET SCREW GOOD ENOUGH AND NON FLATTENED AND BAD SLOT IN CROWN SCREW FIGURE 39.d– REPLICA WITH RATCHET SCREW GOOD ENOUGH AND NON FLATTENED AND BAD SLOT IN CROWN SCREW In above FIGURES 39 you can see that there is a homogeneity problem, like many times in replicas. We will find nice wheels and screws mixed with hideous parts. Anyway, nowadays there are more and more good elements in replicas. Therefore is not at all impossible to get replicas with correct wheels and screws. In below FIGURE 40 are showed four current replicas PAM 111 Noob V3 with nice Wheels and screws. But bear in mind that almost all pics of replicas with flaws above showed are Noob V3 too. So it is usual to get these flaws even in the last generation of replicas. Most likely because the makers have still in stock old elements with flaws and they are using them in the current production. Although it is also possible that makers have lacks of quality control and/or several sources to get the parts. FIGURE 40– FOUR REPLICAS PAM 111 NOOB V3 WITH NICE WHEELS AND SCREWS Below we can see in FIGURES 41.a & b two mods of Gear Train and Ratchet & Crown wheels made by goin and marlin FIGURE 41.a- GEN WHEELS AND REPLICA GEAR TRAIN BRUSHING MODIFIED IN A MODIFICATION BY GOIN FIGURE 41.b- POLISHED WHEELS MODIFIED BY MARLIN 4.3- INSCRIPTION “OFFICINE PANERAI” ON BRIDGES Gen movements PAM 6497 have engraved “OFFICINE PANERAI” inscriptions on bridges. The old first replicas had printed inscriptions and even now H maker have printed “OFFICINE PANERAI” inscriptions. Noob maker replicas have already engraved inscriptions. This is an advantage of Noob replicas over the H maker ones. Anyway H maker printed inscription has more accurate fonts and very good size, position and homogeneity. You can see these qualities in below FIGURE 42 of a printed H maker inscription in comparison with below FIGURE 44 of a gen engraved inscription. FIGURE 42- PRINTED “OFFICINE PANERAI” INSCRIPTION IN H MAKER REPLICAS Above said doesn’t mean the H maker inscription is better than Noob one, indeed people like more the Noob engraved inscription. But actually talking about accuracy of the shape is better H maker inscription. Anyway, at this moment (February 2013), replica inscriptions, neither Noob nor H maker are close to get the gen quality. In following FIGURE 43 is showed the gen inscription. You can see the homogeneity of font sizes, the sharp edges of the characters and the quality of the coloured fonts. FIGURE 43- THE NICE ENGRAVED “OFFICINE PANERAI” INSCRIPTION IN GEN PAMs And below we will show, in multiple FIGURE 45, several Noob “OFFICINE PANERAI” engraved inscriptions. Strangely, these Noob inscriptions have different types, like made in different machines or with different tools, and have also some repetitive problems. All them have no homogeneity in font sizes, have some differences in position, no completely accurate fonts, differences in inscription length, variations in thickness, lacks of ink, a bigger distance R_AI, many times final “I” is placed low or is short, etc… Firstly the same pic for the gen inscription to make comparisons FIGURE 44- ENGRAVED “OFFICINE PANERAI” INSCRIPTION IN GEN PAMs This Noob inscription has too wide and thinner fonts and is displaced to the right, the inscription is much longer than gen, final “I” is smaller, bigger distance R_AI. This Noob inscription has thicker fonts, is displaced to the right, Is a little longer than gen, distance R_AI is just a bit longer and fonts have quite homogeneity of size. This Noob inscription has thinner fonts, is displaced to the right, has correct length, distance R_AI is bigger, final “A” and “R” are short and final “I” is short and placed low. This Noob inscription has thinner fonts, is well placed, is a bit longer, distance R_AI is bigger, final “E” is higher, final “A” and “R” are short and final “I” is short This Noob inscription has correct font thickness, is well placed, is longer, distance R_AI is much bigger, final “A” and “R” are short and final “I” is very short. This Noob inscription has almost correct font thickness, is well placed, has correct length, distance R_AI is much bigger, final “A” and “R” are short and final “I” is very short. This Noob inscription is alittle thinner, is well placed, has correct length, distance R_AI is bigger, final “I” is very short. This Noob inscription has almost correct font thickness, is well placed, has correct length, distance R_AI is much bigger, and final “I” is short and placed low. FIGURE 45- ENGRAVED “OFFICINE PANERAI” INSCRIPTIONS IN NOOB REPLICAS As you can see there are several issues to fix in above Noob engravings. But is very strange and noisy the lack of general homogeneity. All above pics are extracted from the QC pics and owner pics of RWI thread about PAM 111 N-series Noob V3. http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-pam-111-115770.html Modders can make nothing to correct the issues of defective inscriptions, maybe only if the inscriptions have a flaw or lack of blue ink. Therefore this is a matter to be corrected by the makers. Anyway if you consult the pics of old replicas you can see what we have advanced at this regard. 4.3.1- INSCRIPTIONS IN PAM FIDDY - PAM 127 The inscriptions on PAM 127 are a special case concerning inscriptions in PANERAI-PANERAI engraved bridges Gen PAM 127 have beautiful golden engravings, as you can see in below FIGURE 46 FIGURE 46- GOLDEN ENGRAVING ON GEN PAM 127 BRIDGES But the replica, even the best ones, have ugly yellow inscriptions that modders are changing to gold colour to get the gen appearance, as showed in below FIGURE 47 FIGURE 47- REP YELLOW ENGRAVING (at left) REP GOLDEN MODDED ENGRAVING (at right) And now we can see a beautiful modded engraving by marlin FIGURE 48- REP GOLDEN MODDED ENGRAVING BY MARLIN LINKS WITH MORE INFO ABOUT MODIFICATIONS Panerai OPXI - Gen vs. Modified A6497-2 - Modified Incabloc – by goin http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pcteam-panerai-opxi-113823.html Modified PAM217 - by goin http://www.replica-w...ighlight=PCTeam A6497 Incabloc fix service – by goin http://www.replica-w...fix-114219.html Modded Incabloc- by goin http://www.replica-w...893&postcount=6 New mod for 6497 movements – by marlin http://www.replica-w...9.html?t=103739 If your a PAM 127 "Fiddy" freak like me then - CHECK THIS OUT – by marlin http://www.replica-w...ighlight=PCTeam Lyre-spring rep vs. gen comparison. Adaptation to Incabloc modified – by marlin http://www.replica-w...67&postcount=37 Fully Modded Noob 127E All Asian mods – by marlin http://www.replica-w...4.html?t=132984 Side by side OEM ETA vs. REP parts on the 6497 movement for Panerai watches - by marlin http://www.rwgforum....anerai-watches/ Vac 6497 Incabloc mod – by vaccum http://www.replica-w...bloc-97930.html Panerai PAM 111N can you spot the backside differences? – by Rogerthat http://www.replica-w...can-113851.html Panerai 111 Modified Movement Complete – by omgiv http://www.replica-w....html?p=1293719 As always this thread is open to be modified by the discussion, indications, observations and corrections of all RWI members. Many thanks for your kind attention ALE AKNOWLEDGEMENT: Many thanks to RWI PCTeam’s members Goin, marlin and Rwolf for their kindness providing magnificient pics of their watches and mods and a lot of info about their jobs ******************************************************************************************* This thread is completed by the thread: THREAD Part I The Last Steps to the Gen (Part I)–Swan Neck & Incabloc Modifications – Jan 2013 In this thread The Last Steps to the Gen Part I, we dealt with three first flaws, which are located in the movement and more concretely in the Swan Neck device and Incabloc Shock Protection System. Edited February 18, 2013 by ALE7575 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
projectologist 0 Posted February 19, 2013 Thank you!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fedor33 0 Posted August 25, 2013 Really detailed instructions, thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
