IWC 3714 Portuguese secs@6 A7750 graphite fix and module transplant (pics)

[JSJ 0]

I was looking for a Portuguese and was too scared of the seconds@6 horror stories to chuck $300+ at a new (rep) one.

 

A dead one came up on the forum. It had been dropped. An absolute stunner to look at, the blue would have been my choice anyway. I have other 7750s and I thought that with the reported non-existent spares availability, at least I would have one in stock to use for donor parts if one of the others failed.

 

Here is it, finished and working, along with its inspiration.

 

 

 

That's the logic and a bit of background. I’m posting this because it might encourage others to have a go at the fixes, particularly the graphite treatment of the rubbish gear train.

 

So, first job was to try and get it going. Fairly robust palm slaps actually started it and it ran for about 15 minutes. Seconds@6 was stuttering but I now know they must all do that. Good beat, my Android app reported 28,805 bph. Not much wrong then…

Then it stopped. More slapping. Started briefly but no amount of slapping it about would bring it round this time.

Please bear in mind this was a cheap, dead watch so there was very little to lose from a bit of maltreatment at this stage, as long as I didn’t damage the cosmetics.

 

The back comes off easily with four screws. One missing movement retention screw (more later) and one broken off. The seller had told me about the broken one and it looks like it was the result of the drop.

 

OK so have the movement out and take a look.

 

Oh no you don’t! It comes out from the front. And this is one of the newer versions where there has been a cost-saving from the reppers. The bezel is a push fit, not held on by screws.

 

Oh, the joy of trying to remove that without damaging the watch! Did I laugh!

 

I searched and read. Nearest I came was to find someone who had done it. Pipe wrenches were mentioned. I have a pipe wrench but try as I might, I just could not bring myself to wrap my Stilsons with tape and use them on the bezel. I even got them out of my plumbing tool box before my better judgement prevailed.

 

There is a plastic washer inside the case where the bezel sits (according to my searches). Warming the plastic makes it softer. So I heated the front of the watch with a hairdryer (my wife already knows I am a nutter). A robust and very sharp craft knife (Stanley knife would do) was put into the gap and the gap widened a touch! I worked all round and it was soon off.

 

 

Remove the stem carefully by pressing the release button next to it. Put the stem in the winding position before you do this. Sorry I didn't take a picture of this bit. There are plenty of other threads which describe how to do it. The big deal is "don't force it!". If it's not coming out, easily, then something is not quite sitting right. rotate the crown a little, click the stem out to the hand-setting position, then push it gently back. Fiddle around with it until the button depresses and the stem pulls out.

 

Remove the movement retaining brackets and make sure you recover the screws and brackets. They are fiddly and easy to drop (more later!). My screws and brackets were already out. The movement came straight out of the front. Make sure you take good care of it as it will fall out!

 

Put the stem back in, otherwise, when you take the plates off the front to expose the movement, a gear from the keyless work (the complicated and delicate mechanism which the stem passes through) will drop out. I bet you can work out how I know this. Fortunately, I had taken pics so it was possible to work out where it came from and it just dropped back in. I then put the stem back in. Anyway, you will need the stem back in when you are setting the hands later, before you put the movement back.

 

Take the hands off, heeding the dire warnings about fragile rep hands and chronograph subdial hands in particular. I prefer the lever-type hand removers. Read up on hand removal if you haven't done this before. I have done it quite a bit on semi-disposable cheapies (see the Rollie pic below). If you haven't done it before, maybe you would like to practice a couple of times on a less challenging and less valuable watch?

 

Cover the dial before removing the hands. This is absolutely essential! I use a very thin piece of plastic with a slit cut into it so when the hand removers touch the dial, they don't mark it. There are other threads written by people who are better than me at this and I recommend a read.

 

“Don’t break the hand, don’t damage the dial, take your time, it’s not a race” was the mantra repeated over and over again to myself.

 

First a pic to show the spacing of the hands so I can know when they are correctly spaced as I put them back on later.

 

 

The secs@6 hand is off... Yes I should have used plastic tweezers to show you but I think I got away with it.

 

 

This is where two cheapie Rolex sub and GMT reps have paid me back. Yes, their hands are a bit scratched, yes, I marked the Submariner dial while I was luming it but their sacrifice meant I was confident enough to dive into this Portuguese.

 

Here is the sacrificial Rollie with the mark on the dial under the 9 marker. Glows like a torch, watertight to 4 bar (at least), hacking movement with a 48 hour power reserve and keeps great time. How many people change their watch TO a Rollie to work in the garden?

 

 

 

Back to the Portuguese...

 

All the hands are off

 

 

Now, the dial has a couple of screws retaining it doesn't it? Err, no it doesn't. More searching and reading. It has two brass retaining clips near the 6 and 12 markers which need to be flipped out using a 0.8 screwdriver or similar.

 

One clip is at the top of this pic, flipped out. The curved brass part is the piece which retains the pin on the back of the dial. To refit the dial, you would push that brass piece to the right until it disappeared into its slot.

You can also see the broken movement retaining screw, in the hole under the brass dial retainer.

 

 

Dial off, here is the notorious secs@6 mod (note this pic below was taken on reassembly and has the full complement of screws - not how I found it).

 

 

Three countersunk screws hold the first plate. On taking those out, a fourth screw dropped out which turned out to be one of those holding the second plate onto the main movement. It is possible to remove the two extra plates (those which hold the extension gear train for the secs@6) together because the top plate is through drilled to allow access to the screws holding the second plate to the movement.

 

The top plate was removed to reveal the horrible sloppy gear train which drives the secs@6. The brass wheel is the one which takes the hand. No obvious signs of wear anywhere. Note there is a jewel around the wheel in the centre. That seems to be a recent thing because none of the other pics I saw in my searches have that on it.The brass wheel is the one which takes the hand. No obvious signs of wear anywhere.

 

 

The centre wheel and the brass wheel just drop out. The other wheel is held by a push-fit pin. I decided not to remove it as there was no swarf or grit anywhere, even on examination with a loupe. I don't think the movement has run much.

 

The one screw (of three which are supposed to be there) holding the second plate was removed to reveal the movement. There are pins which ensure correct reassembly.

 

 

Here is the top of the movement itself. The brass gear on the left is where the 7750 has its secs@9 and that brass gear is the start of the rep secs@6 gear train.

 

 

 

Now the movement still didn't run! I could force it to run and it would do about a minute. I now knew for certain that it wasn't the secs@6 gear train which was stopping it. The escapement would keep trying but would not go anywhere. Something inside the movement I thought. Blow it with the blower, shake it, look inside it. At this point I was thinking grit or muck of some sort. I've had a few reps apart and found all manner of err... crud inside them. It was 1:30 am by this time and I was about to give up for the night before taking a deep breath and starting to take apart the movement...

 

I found this from ETA by the way. http://www.eta.ch/sw.../7750/7750.html . It's not a watch-making course but it is a fascinating animation of how to take apart a 7750. Not for the fainthearted.

 

Anyway, bleary eyed me, 1:45 am and the movement coughs up...

 

 

...the bit at the top - the movement retention bracket which had broken off when it was dropped.

 

Wow! from that moment, I left the movement on the bench and went to bed.

 

Still running sweetly in the morning, 28,805 bph. Magic!

 

OK so it wasn't the secs@6 at all! However, now it's in bits, I might as well graphite it, like explained in this excellent thread from onzenuub in 2009 http://www.rwg.bz/bo...showtopic=3154.

 

I have some dry powdered graphite in stock. It's the lock lubricant. The logic in the old thread made a lot of sense and actually, I can see how a bit of stray graphite is not going to ruin a movement compared with the bits of rice, noodle and various body parts which are normally lurking in a rep.

 

So here goes...

 

 

Ample quantities were added, rubbed in, all over it. Then it was blown off with the blower.

 

Gear train reassembly was easy. There is a LOT of slop in it, which is why the secs@6 hand is so jerky, That is just backlash. Total rubbish.

 

I was left thinking that a far better solution would be a belt drive. Pulley on the original secs@9, pulley under the secs@6. Absolutely no backlash, very little chance of grit. Anyway, I'm not about to do that. but I do reckon for a watchmaker, it would be easy and far better than the current crappy attempt as repping the IWC method.

 

 

 

Anyway, all was reassembled. I had screws to replace the missing ones. Still a bit of graphite to blow away on the pic below.

 

 

 

Hands all lined up...

 

 

I decided not to try and drill out the broken movement retention screw. Swarf would result and frankly with one in place, it's pretty firm. In fact, it's firm-ish with just the bezel holding it.

 

 

All working.

 

Summary. Secs@6 was blamed (by me at least) and it wasn't that. However, it is total rubbish execution of a reasonable concept.

 

It's one of the later 7750 with working regulator and fine adjustment. I learnt how to use that on my 3777 and that has gained a second in the last nine days and never been more than two seconds fast in that time). Regulated the Portuguese in the same way using my Android app to 28,800 bph. So far, it gained a second since last night.

 

It is such an absolute looker this Portuguese. Now to find a great, plain matching blue strap.

 

I get so much out of this place, I wanted to share this thread to give a tiny bit back. I hope this helps others who fancy a go at fixing their secs@6, even if that wasn't my issue in the end.

[Pseudonym 0]

Excellent read... Thanks. As someone who has been weary of the secs at 6 mod- it may not be all that bad.

[Iceman767 0]

Great great write up. Matter of fact I'm almost convinced to take apart mine also. Also experiencing sloppy sec at 6 movement. I may take mine apart once I find some time to do so.

 

Can you confirm what app in App store Android did you use in measuring the bhp?

 

Cheers

[JSJ 0]

Thanks guys. I'm no watchsmith. If you have hand skills and some watch tools, you can do this graphite thing. Onzenuub uses an ultrasonic cleaner and I would have bought one if there had been any sign of wear on the gears.

[JSJ 0]

.

 

Can you confirm what app in App store Android did you use in measuring the bhp?

 

Cheers

Yes, it's Clock Tuner, thread here http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=68935&hl=&fromsearch=1

[JSJ 0]

Also experiencing sloppy sec at 6 movement. I may take mine apart once I find some time to do so.

 

Cheers

 

Just to be clear, it won't fix that. That is due to the backlash in the gear train. The design concept is OK, the execution is absolutely appalling.

[Iceman767 0]

Nice one JSJ - cheers. Will check it out

[Mirage 0]

FANTASTIC! Great post, precise clear with great pictures. It raised my confidence level into the reliability of mine. Thank you JSJ

[746_heuer 0]

infinite thanks, there was already a guide to this but it required some more experience to follow. Now, this, is excellent.

 

Thanks for taking the time, i hope to be as helpful to the forum some day

[TangoDoc 0]

I am impressed by your adventurous spirit, evident skill inside the guts but even more by the superb pictures and clear explanation. I can't see myself attempting such a thing. Respect!

[JSJ 0]

Thanks so much for the positive feedback. It has made the effort worth it.

 

I have just edited to add some clarification in case other inexperienced newbies like me try and follow it.

 

In particular, I've added bits about stem removal. This is essential - the movement obviously won't come out unless you remove the stem. It's obvious after you've done a few but is not obvious if you haven't.

 

Also, a bit more about hand removal, particularly about protecting the dial, which again is obvious if you've tried to do it without protection and damaged one, but I'd hate your beautiful Portuguese to suffer because I hadn't mentioned it.

[twofake 0]

Great post. Love the watch!

[Corv99 2]

Great post mate....

 

Lovely watch too

[wqleow 1]

Great reading and you did an amazing job!

[Odyseus 1]

Great post!! I must get a sec@6 just to strip down

[JSJ 0]

Great post!! I must get a sec@6 just to strip down

Yes it's great fun. Go for it!

[missa146 0]

Thanks a lot mate. I'm about to pull the trigger in a Portuguese Chronograph and was looking for a guide to service it. Your post is awesome

[pberto 0]

Great post. I love this watch too, one of my favourites. In fact only yesterday I posted in WTB looking for goosed sec @6 7750's so I could have a look into them and figure out if I could service one myself before buying a portugese. Sadly due to this post I figure I'll have trouble finding a cheap non working one... everyone will be fixing them now.

great work

PB

[JSJ 0]

Thanks :-)

 

I found another one - the sunburst in rose gold - and fixed that too. It had been stopping intermittently. It's fine now.

 

I still have a WTB up but no more have appeared.

 

I have to conclude that there are fewer broken ones than we might expect from all the scare stories. I wonder how many people who spread dire warnings about them have actually had experience of them. Don't get me wrong, they certainly are a dubious design and execution and it takes very little to stop them.

 

I will also say that there are definitely more jewels in mine than in the old strip-down posts I found. The TDs are telling the truth about that. I found absolutely no swarf in either of them.

[pberto 0]

Well this definitely gives me more confidence to place an order for one, I just need to decide between gold and blue hands.

Unless you want to sell me yours?

[Mirage 0]

Was wearing mine today

[JSJ 0]

Well this definitely gives me more confidence to place an order for one, I just need to decide between gold and blue hands.

Unless you want to sell me yours?

These are keepers :-) - but thanks for asking.

 

On choosing which one, the gold/brown one looks great but it's quite difficult to read the time in some lights. The blue/white one also looks great and is very easy to read. Therefore, my preference is for the blue/white but of course if you want to colour-coordinate, that will influence. I'm certainly interested in finding a gold/white one. I think they look stunning too.

[pberto 0]

Fair play, enjoy them, if ever you change your mind you know where I am.

My choice is between

SS white face with blue hands and numerals and

SS white face with gold hands and numerals

 

they are both fantastic looking so it's hard to choose.

 

Wait... I think I've decided...... BOTH!

[Mirage 0]

 

Wait... I think I've decided...... BOTH!

That's the spririt!

 

I need one more too! Make sure you guys see the AR coating thread from Sunnydale on RWI. It will give your 3714 that special touch that really puts de dial in evidence.

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=176761

[JSJ 0]

 

Wait... I think I've decided...... BOTH!

That's the spririt!

 

I need one more too! Make sure you guys see the AR coating thread from Sunnydale on RWI. It will give your 3714 that special touch that really puts de dial in evidence.

http://www.replica-w...ad.php?t=176761

Thanks very much for that - I'll investigate. Gotta work out how to remove the crystal without damaging the bezel insert.