Minute hand falling behind on Submariner Asian 2813

[mike_x 0]

HELP, PLEASE!!! Something strange, at least for me: In July I bought a Submariner Asian 2813 from Joshua. After I made a beat/timing adjustment it was pretty accurate, only approx. 5 seconds per day off. Perfect! Then, after a couple of months, I started to notice that suddenly the time was off (slow) by a couple of minutes. At first I thought the watch had just stopped intermittently, but after detailed investigation over the next weeks I knew exactly what happened. The minute hand was falling behind (slipping?) approx. 1-2 minutes / day. The seconds (overall accuracy) was still great, but not knowing how many minutes the minute hand had slowed over the last day or so, I did just not know anymore what exact time it was. So I ordered another Submariner 2813 from Jushua. It arrived a few days ago, and has the same problem out of the box. This one is timed perfectly from the beginning (I did not even have to open it up), but the minute hand already falls behind by approx. one minute per day. All "setting" functions, winding, self winding etc. on both watches seem to be perfectly normal. Do you think the minute hand could just slip (but it would have to be very constant over time), or is it a gear problem, or...? I could not find anything here in the forums describing the same problem. Well, maybe somebody can help! Such a pretty watch, but... so sad...

[greg_r 81]

It just needs regulating - any watchsmith (such as our own Brightlight, if you're in the EU) should be able to help you with that.

 

Personally if a watch is within a minute or so per day I don't worry about it, but that's up to you. Do bear in mind that if you want absolute 100% accuracy, you need quartz - no mechanical movement rep or gen will ever be accurate to the second over 24 hours...

[Brightlight 0]

Maybe he had a bad batch of minute hands and they are slipping. Difficult to tell for sure though it seems a possible solution. It's unlikely to be a mechanical problem in the movement as any slippage in the minute hand operation whould also affect the hour hand as the canon pinion drives the hour hand via an intermediate gear. The most likley reason is that the minute hand is catching on one of the markers, the hour hand, or the cyrstal which might force it to slip. This would tend to happen at regular intervals so the slippage would be fairly regular.

[KBH 7]

So, are you saying that the minute and hour hand no longer align both at 12 o:clock? From what I'm understanding, when the minute hand is straight up on12, the hour hand no longer points directly at the hour. Is that correct?

[greg_r 81]

So, are you saying that the minute and hour hand no longer align both at 12 o:clock? From what I'm understanding, when the minute hand is straight up on12, the hour hand no longer points directly at the hour. Is that correct?

 

 

Hmm - good point. I was assuming that it was just running that bit slow, but maybe I misunderstood?

[mike_x 0]

Maybe he had a bad batch of minute hands and they are slipping. Difficult to tell for sure though it seems a possible solution. It's unlikely to be a mechanical problem in the movement as any slippage in the minute hand operation whould also affect the hour hand as the canon pinion drives the hour hand via an intermediate gear. The most likley reason is that the minute hand is catching on one of the markers, the hour hand, or the cyrstal which might force it to slip. This would tend to happen at regular intervals so the slippage would be fairly regular.

 

 

I think you understand my problem. I had checked before if the minute hand is catching anything, but it isn't: Far away from the markers, and not touching the crystal (the seconds hand it running on top of it). It looks like it something more sophisticated. The minute hand is falling behind by approx. 0.1% per day, and even this appears to be on a continuous basis, not as a one time jump. You think there could really be a bad batch of hands which would do that on different watches? I was also winding the watch manually through several days forward and backwards just to make sure that there should be no "sticking" between the hands (this is what Jushua had recommended). Of course I can still not really exclude this... But again, it's two watches with the exact same symptoms, only that the first one needed a couple of months to develop it and the second one did it right away.

[greg_r 81]

So, let me get this straight. If you set the watch to 12.00, the hour hand is ahead of the minute hand, yes?

[Tressles61 0]

Well the 2813 is cheap to replace. Only over here at Ofrei's when you buy a 2813 you get the first generation movement not the 2813-2 that are out now. Bastages - they need to update their inventory.

[KBH 7]

So, let me get this straight. If you set the watch to 12.00, the hour hand is ahead of the minute hand, yes?

 

I'm with you G. He's not making this very clear.

[mike_x 0]

So, let me get this straight. If you set the watch to 12.00, the hour hand is ahead of the minute hand, yes?

 

This is exactly right. From when it started with the first watch, it took a few days to notice, but then it became obvious. I have the new watch (which was doing the same thing right away) for only 4 days now, so it is just becoming apparent after about 4x1.5 minutes of "slipping". So yes, setting the watch to 12:00, with the minute hand exactly at 12, the hour hand is already ahead again.

[X-treme 0]

Cannon pinion pinch any watch maker will re-pinch it for you

 

Marcus

[greg_r 81]

So, let me get this straight. If you set the watch to 12.00, the hour hand is ahead of the minute hand, yes?

 

This is exactly right. From when it started with the first watch, it took a few days to notice, but then it became obvious. I have the new watch (which was doing the same thing right away) for only 4 days now, so it is just becoming apparent after about 4x1.5 minutes of "slipping". So yes, setting the watch to 12:00, with the minute hand exactly at 12, the hour hand is already ahead again.

 

Right. Thanks for delivering me from my confusion

 

As X-treme says, it should be a pretty easy fix. Any rep-friendly watchmaker should be able to sort that out for you - alternatively Josh may be willing to get it sorted under guarantee.

[offshore 0]

Hope it is that simple.

Have seen three of late, where the dial has come away from the movement, pushing the hand/s off.

In one instance, it was a very botched build, as the dial had been installed over another dial!

So it was always going to push the hour hand out first and finally everything was slipping.( And binding up with themselves)

The other two were simply dials which didn't have feet to line up with movements, so the feet were snapped off and some very ordinary D/S tape had been used to try to locate the dial. And it hadn't held!

Some of the build quality has been very lacking of late...maybe we're down to the #5 build team!

Trying to fix what was a botched build in the first place, is a little more difficult than just repairing a mechanical problem. Especially without access to "bits"

O/S

[greg_r 81]

ouch - that doesn't sound good, OS....

[Brightlight 0]

Cannon pinion pinch any watch maker will re-pinch it for you

 

Marcus

 

Sorry I don't understand how the canon pinion can rise and slip without the hour wheel which sits on top, and is driven by the canon pinion via an intermediate gear, also slipping. Also the hour hand cannot be removed without removing the cover plate so I don't see how either could rise? So I'm not clear how a canon pinion pinch can solve this problem.

[offshore 0]

BL, I took that to actually mean rebroaching the hour/minute hands? Terminology?

O/S

[Brightlight 0]

BL, I took that to actually mean rebroaching the hour/minute hands? Terminology?

O/S

 

Could be, though that doesn't sound like the problem either, not as it is regular.

[mike_x 0]

So, let me get this straight. If you set the watch to 12.00, the hour hand is ahead of the minute hand, yes?

 

This is exactly right. From when it started with the first watch, it took a few days to notice, but then it became obvious. I have the new watch (which was doing the same thing right away) for only 4 days now, so it is just becoming apparent after about 4x1.5 minutes of "slipping". So yes, setting the watch to 12:00, with the minute hand exactly at 12, the hour hand is already ahead again.

 

Right. Thanks for delivering me from my confusion

 

As X-treme says, it should be a pretty easy fix. Any rep-friendly watchmaker should be able to sort that out for you - alternatively Josh may be willing to get it sorted under guarantee.

 

 

I contacted Josh, and he seems to be unfamiliar with this problem. I also told him that now I have two watches (same Sub Asian 2813 model) from him with the same problem (one not even 3 months old, the other one new). He suggested I should keep observing it. He did not really say he would not handle it under warranty, but he did not offer it either.

 

I am considering just getting over it, get rid of the watches and buy a new one from a trusted source in the forum. I believe there are even trusted dealers IN the forum, right?

All I am looking for is a Standard new model Sub black with an Asian 2813. I can adjust timing/beat myself just fine, therefore I don't need a more accurate/better movement... unless you guys would really, really recommend something better for a good reason. Josh's rep was $128 incl. shipping.

 

So here are my questions:

- Can anybody give me a safe recommendation where to buy another new rep (model as above), maybe from a forum member (dealer), not having to worry about the same problem ... which is obviously not very common anyway...

- Or: Is one of you guys a repair expert and "knows" that he can fix the problem for not much money?

 

Thanks already for all your input so far!!!

 

Mike

Edited October 26, 2010 by mike_x

[Brightlight 0]

So, let me get this straight. If you set the watch to 12.00, the hour hand is ahead of the minute hand, yes?

 

This is exactly right. From when it started with the first watch, it took a few days to notice, but then it became obvious. I have the new watch (which was doing the same thing right away) for only 4 days now, so it is just becoming apparent after about 4x1.5 minutes of "slipping". So yes, setting the watch to 12:00, with the minute hand exactly at 12, the hour hand is already ahead again.

 

Right. Thanks for delivering me from my confusion

 

As X-treme says, it should be a pretty easy fix. Any rep-friendly watchmaker should be able to sort that out for you - alternatively Josh may be willing to get it sorted under guarantee.

 

 

I contacted Josh, and he seems to be unfamiliar with this problem. I also told him that now I have two watches (same Sub Asian 2813 model) from him with the same problem (one not even 3 months old, the other one new). He suggested I should keep observing it. He did not really say he would not handle it under warranty, but he did not offer it either.

 

I am considering just getting over it, get rid of the watches and buy a new one from a trusted source in the forum. I believe there are even trusted dealers IN the forum, right?

All I am looking for is a Standard new model Sub black with an Asian 2813. I can adjust timing/beat myself just fine, therefore I don't need a more accurate/better movement... unless you guys would really, really recommend something better for a good reason. Josh's rep was $128 incl. shipping.

 

So here are my questions:

- Can anybody give me a safe recommendation where to buy another new rep (model as above), maybe from a forum member (dealer), not having to worry about the same problem ... which is obviously not very common anyway...

- Or: Is one of you guys a repair expert and "knows" that he can fix the problem for not much money?

 

Thanks already for all your input so far!!!

 

Mike

 

Mike, if you are confident enough, buy a new movement and slot it in. Depending where you are these are available from Cousins in the UK or Ofrei in the US, around £15 with VAT and Postage in the UK, about the same in dollars in the US, or you can get the movement switched over for about the same again. The only tricky thing is removing the datewheel overlay from the old one and glueing to the new one in correct registration. You also need to use a proper hands remover to get the seconds hand off the old movement as the 21J seconds pin is very thin and easy to break off inside the hand tube with almost no way of removing it! As far as dealers go, Lay from Replica Make and Robert from Prestige Watch Co are excellent and able to get problems sorted without sending back to China. Mary is also very good though I don't think she has this facility currently.

 

Of course you could buy one with an ETA clone movement which can be repaired/serviced and for which parts are available. Personally I think it's worth the extra if you're wearing the watch a lot.