SKY-F subs 116610 A-2813 QC shows 28800 vph

[black263 228]

I've read the many posts explaining the good and bad of the testing results ... I'm concerned with the following:

 

1. that testing results shown are not for my particular watch and my watch was never tested; and that "something smells really fishy"

2. if the results are indeed for my watches, then I could end up with the POS Z2 movement beating 28800; which I have gathered is much worse than the cheap 2813

 

my guess is it will just be a fake QC pic, can you see a red light on the time-graph machine by any chance?

 

Check this thread http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=101188 when I look back at mine you can see the pause light faintly as the watch has been positioned to hide it but just doesn't do it that well

After reading your thread (three times), am I to understand that when the red light is on; it isn't a good sign ???

The red light means that the machine has been paused. That does give the opportunity to photograph several watches in front of a good display, should the photographer wish to do so. Not making any accusations here.

[doodoowah57 0]

I hope my future purchases (with any TD) will go smoother and less questionable than this my first with PC.

 

I have also pulled the trigger and placed an order with TS and waiting for QC.

 

While going through the postings here, especially "watch of the week ???" I get soooooooooooooooo many "wishlist" ideas and this list is getting expensively long ... I must say that the pics shown by the many members are fabulous - I drool over some of them...hehe

[Genius 281]

I've read the many posts explaining the good and bad of the testing results ... I'm concerned with the following:

 

1. that testing results shown are not for my particular watch and my watch was never tested; and that "something smells really fishy"

2. if the results are indeed for my watches, then I could end up with the POS Z2 movement beating 28800; which I have gathered is much worse than the cheap 2813

 

my guess is it will just be a fake QC pic, can you see a red light on the time-graph machine by any chance?

 

Check this thread http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=101188 when I look back at mine you can see the pause light faintly as the watch has been positioned to hide it but just doesn't do it that well

After reading your thread (three times), am I to understand that when the red light is on; it isn't a good sign ???

Just means the QC guy is a lazy twat, likely means nothing bad about your watch

[doodoowah57 0]

I've read the many posts explaining the good and bad of the testing results ... I'm concerned with the following:

 

1. that testing results shown are not for my particular watch and my watch was never tested; and that "something smells really fishy"

2. if the results are indeed for my watches, then I could end up with the POS Z2 movement beating 28800; which I have gathered is much worse than the cheap 2813

 

my guess is it will just be a fake QC pic, can you see a red light on the time-graph machine by any chance?

 

Check this thread http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=101188 when I look back at mine you can see the pause light faintly as the watch has been positioned to hide it but just doesn't do it that well

After reading your thread (three times), am I to understand that when the red light is on; it isn't a good sign ???

The red light means that the machine has been paused. That does give the opportunity to photograph several watches in front of a good display, should the photographer wish to do so. Not making any accusations here.

Your answer is what I dreaded ... all signs indicate that this transaction is not only fishy, but starting to rapidly rot ... I will wait for Joshua's re-processing; AND I've learned not to trust QCs for the test results; but that said, I would HAVE NO IDEA whatsoever regarding movement quality and no one in their right mind would or should accept that

[doodoowah57 0]

I've read the many posts explaining the good and bad of the testing results ... I'm concerned with the following:

 

1. that testing results shown are not for my particular watch and my watch was never tested; and that "something smells really fishy"

2. if the results are indeed for my watches, then I could end up with the POS Z2 movement beating 28800; which I have gathered is much worse than the cheap 2813

 

my guess is it will just be a fake QC pic, can you see a red light on the time-graph machine by any chance?

 

Check this thread http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=101188 when I look back at mine you can see the pause light faintly as the watch has been positioned to hide it but just doesn't do it that well

After reading your thread (three times), am I to understand that when the red light is on; it isn't a good sign ???

Just means the QC guy is a lazy twat, likely means nothing bad about your watch

NO, it doesn't mean the watch is bad; BUT it also doesn't mean the watch is good ... it can possibly mean that MY watches were tested; results were bad; and fake test QCs were provided to compensate

[Genius 281]

I've read the many posts explaining the good and bad of the testing results ... I'm concerned with the following:

 

1. that testing results shown are not for my particular watch and my watch was never tested; and that "something smells really fishy"

2. if the results are indeed for my watches, then I could end up with the POS Z2 movement beating 28800; which I have gathered is much worse than the cheap 2813

 

my guess is it will just be a fake QC pic, can you see a red light on the time-graph machine by any chance?

 

Check this thread http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=101188 when I look back at mine you can see the pause light faintly as the watch has been positioned to hide it but just doesn't do it that well

After reading your thread (three times), am I to understand that when the red light is on; it isn't a good sign ???

Just means the QC guy is a lazy twat, likely means nothing bad about your watch

NO, it doesn't mean the watch is bad; BUT it also doesn't mean the watch is good ... it can possibly mean that MY watches were tested; results were bad; and fake test QCs were provided to compensate

 

Dont worry!

1. I also bought the same watch
   
2. I also got fake QC
   
3. The watch I recieved was fine!
   

I think you even might have bought it based on my review

 

 

Seriously dont read too much into time-graph pictures, my go-to TD is Toro and he doesn't even send them!

[black263 228]

I've read the many posts explaining the good and bad of the testing results ... I'm concerned with the following:

 

1. that testing results shown are not for my particular watch and my watch was never tested; and that "something smells really fishy"

2. if the results are indeed for my watches, then I could end up with the POS Z2 movement beating 28800; which I have gathered is much worse than the cheap 2813

 

my guess is it will just be a fake QC pic, can you see a red light on the time-graph machine by any chance?

 

Check this thread http://www.rwg.bz/bo...howtopic=101188 when I look back at mine you can see the pause light faintly as the watch has been positioned to hide it but just doesn't do it that well

After reading your thread (three times), am I to understand that when the red light is on; it isn't a good sign ???

Just means the QC guy is a lazy twat, likely means nothing bad about your watch

NO, it doesn't mean the watch is bad; BUT it also doesn't mean the watch is good ... it can possibly mean that MY watches were tested; results were bad; and fake test QCs were provided to compensate

 

Dont worry!

1. I also bought the same watch
   
2. I also got fake QC
   
3. The watch I recieved was fine!
   

I think you even might have bought it based on my review

 

 

 

Seriously dont read too much into time-graph pictures, my go-to TD is Toro and he doesn't even send them!

Frankly, timegrapher pictures aren't worth the pixels they're printed on. They bear little or no resemblance to any performance in real life, and while a timegrapher is very useful as a way of adjusting a watch, a single QC picture is pretty well useless.

 

I use mine to regulate, by wearing a watch for a couple of days in real life, and working out what alteration I need to make. I then put it on the timegrapher and make that alteration. Last watch I did was gaining 20 secs a day in real life. On the timegrapher, face down with the back off so I could adjust it, it read as losing 10 secs a day. I adjusted it to lose 30 secs a day on the machine, and now, in real life, its almost perfect. (varies by + or - a couple of seconds a day.)

[Realism 72]

R-E-L-A-X ... QC pics is the least of your worries.

 

1.) pubes

2.) over-oiled movt.

3.) under-oiled movt.

4.) "stripped" screw in bracelet

5.) bad alignment of dial

 

etc...

 

worse shit do certainly happen vs some timegrapher pic

[black263 228]

R-E-L-A-X ... QC pics is the least of your worries.

 

1.) pubes

2.) over-oiled movt.

3.) under-oiled movt.

4.) "stripped" screw in bracelet

5.) bad alignment of dial

 

etc...

 

worse shit do certainly happen vs some timegrapher pic

I would argue that timegrapher pics have no place in the QC process. When you look at what QC is for, there is no mention of accurate timekeeping. http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=14317

[Realism 72]

R-E-L-A-X ... QC pics is the least of your worries. 1.) pubes 2.) over-oiled movt. 3.) under-oiled movt. 4.) "stripped" screw in bracelet 5.) bad alignment of dial etc... worse shit do certainly happen vs some timegrapher pic

I would argue that timegrapher pics have no place in the QC process. When you look at what QC is for, there is no mention of accurate timekeeping. http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=14317

 

not going to lie tho... it does/will leave a bad taste esp to first time buyers... since most are already jittery enough from sending overseas $$

 

so from that pt... i can understand what the OP is going through...

 

however... like mentioned... plenty of other things from the grave beyond that a timegrapher pic can't tell anyway

[greg_r 81]

I know its not Josh himself but its pure laziness from his staff there is definite history of Perfect Clones doing this on an ongoing basis and if you cant trust the QC what is the point in even sending it.

 

Don't be too hard on Josh - it happens with most of the bigger dealers from time to time. Honesty, I think they're pretty worthless anyhow - I never even look at the timegrapher pics when I buy something.

 

I've bought maybe 30-40 watches from Josh over the years - most back before dealers offered QC pics. All but two were spot on when received, which is a pretty respectable percentage in this hobby.

 

Out of curiosity, I've just dropped a PM to the two guys I was talking to about these a while back to confirm what they actually received. I will report back when I find out...

[doodoowah57 0]

Thank you everyone for your useful pointers and comments.

 

As of now, I'm still waiting for "re-processing" from Josh.

 

I agree that QC pics are not "the end-all" of a watch ... but it is an essential part of the acquisition process and when one feels that he/she is being taken for a ride, what can one think??? (Better to get no testing QC than a fake one ???) The TD for his part needs to ascertain that the watch he gets from the factory is in fact the watch he has described, and selling/sending to the end-user. What happened to due-dilegence ??? I understand that the SKY subs are not very expensive and that they are "get-your-feet-wet" introductory reps, but I should still expect to get an item that matches 100% to the description outlined by the TD.

 

In my first posting, I had mention my desire for any watch, rep or gen to last as long as possible. I get no enjoyment or satisfaction from admiring a great looker that doesn't work ... like having a Ferrari sitting on the driveway and everyone is oohing and aahing over it, but it doesn't run 'cause the Pontiac Fiero engine in it has died.

 

I was hoping that my first transaction with PC would be a smooth problem-free one as my wishlist from his site is getting longer by the minute - no thanks to all the great pics on the site.

[Genius 281]

I know its not Josh himself but its pure laziness from his staff there is definite history of Perfect Clones doing this on an ongoing basis and if you cant trust the QC what is the point in even sending it.

 

Don't be too hard on Josh - it happens with most of the bigger dealers from time to time. Honesty, I think they're pretty worthless anyhow - I never even look at the timegrapher pics when I buy something.

 

I've bought maybe 30-40 watches from Josh over the years - most back before dealers offered QC pics. All but two were spot on when received, which is a pretty respectable percentage in this hobby.

 

Out of curiosity, I've just dropped a PM to the two guys I was talking to about these a while back to confirm what they actually received. I will report back when I find out...

Completely understand where you are coming from. Like I mentioned my normal go-to is Toro and he doesn't even send timegraph photos the one from PC was actually the first timegraph QC I'd ever had but like Realism says its just puts that off tinge to the purchase.

 

Honestly would rather they didn't bother

[doodoowah57 0]

R-E-L-A-X ... QC pics is the least of your worries.

 

1.) pubes

2.) over-oiled movt.

3.) under-oiled movt.

4.) "stripped" screw in bracelet

5.) bad alignment of dial

 

etc...

 

worse shit do certainly happen vs some timegrapher pic

I totally agree ... guess factory QC doesn't exist; on the more expensive models, are these problems prevalent ???

 

What is it with the pubes ??? are the assemblers jerking off and greasing the movement with their load ... sorry, couldn't resist; gotta get my mind outta the gutter

[doodoowah57 0]

I know its not Josh himself but its pure laziness from his staff there is definite history of Perfect Clones doing this on an ongoing basis and if you cant trust the QC what is the point in even sending it.

 

Don't be too hard on Josh - it happens with most of the bigger dealers from time to time. Honesty, I think they're pretty worthless anyhow - I never even look at the timegrapher pics when I buy something.

 

I've bought maybe 30-40 watches from Josh over the years - most back before dealers offered QC pics. All but two were spot on when received, which is a pretty respectable percentage in this hobby.

 

Out of curiosity, I've just dropped a PM to the two guys I was talking to about these a while back to confirm what they actually received. I will report back when I find out...

No, I'm not blaming Josh ... but since Josh is representative of his business concern, he is only as strong as his weakest link AND he should have better oversight of every cog and gear in his organization. He has to take responsibility for every step of this transaction whether he is physically present or not ... and that is why he gets the big money.

[doodoowah57 0]

I know its not Josh himself but its pure laziness from his staff there is definite history of Perfect Clones doing this on an ongoing basis and if you cant trust the QC what is the point in even sending it.

 

Don't be too hard on Josh - it happens with most of the bigger dealers from time to time. Honesty, I think they're pretty worthless anyhow - I never even look at the timegrapher pics when I buy something.

 

I've bought maybe 30-40 watches from Josh over the years - most back before dealers offered QC pics. All but two were spot on when received, which is a pretty respectable percentage in this hobby.

 

Out of curiosity, I've just dropped a PM to the two guys I was talking to about these a while back to confirm what they actually received. I will report back when I find out...

Completely understand where you are coming from. Like I mentioned my normal go-to is Toro and he doesn't even send timegraph photos the one from PC was actually the first timegraph QC I'd ever had but like Realism says its just puts that off tinge to the purchase.

 

Honestly would rather they didn't bother

I was actually on eBay last night looking at the timegrapher offerings ... in the end, unless I crack open the watch, I would never be 100% sure of what movement I'm getting, and if that is the case, I should honestly hope for the best, but expect the worst ... is this hobby that "untrustworthy" (for lack of a better term) because some sellers don't know what movements they're getting from the factory and must rely totally on the honesty of the factories, and buyers in turn end up with this "luck-of-the-draw" movement ???

[black263 228]

I know its not Josh himself but its pure laziness from his staff there is definite history of Perfect Clones doing this on an ongoing basis and if you cant trust the QC what is the point in even sending it.

 

Don't be too hard on Josh - it happens with most of the bigger dealers from time to time. Honesty, I think they're pretty worthless anyhow - I never even look at the timegrapher pics when I buy something.

 

I've bought maybe 30-40 watches from Josh over the years - most back before dealers offered QC pics. All but two were spot on when received, which is a pretty respectable percentage in this hobby.

 

Out of curiosity, I've just dropped a PM to the two guys I was talking to about these a while back to confirm what they actually received. I will report back when I find out...

Completely understand where you are coming from. Like I mentioned my normal go-to is Toro and he doesn't even send timegraph photos the one from PC was actually the first timegraph QC I'd ever had but like Realism says its just puts that off tinge to the purchase.

 

Honestly would rather they didn't bother

I was actually on eBay last night looking at the timegrapher offerings ... in the end, unless I crack open the watch, I would never be 100% sure of what movement I'm getting, and if that is the case, I should honestly hope for the best, but expect the worst ... is this hobby that "untrustworthy" (for lack of a better term) because some sellers don't know what movements they're getting from the factory and must rely totally on the honesty of the factories, and buyers in turn end up with this "luck-of-the-draw" movement ???

Being brutal, you're dealing with criminals who are illegally importing counterfeit items. The Trust is that they shouldn't rip you off deliberately, and should something go tits up, they have agreed to work with our moderators. Apart from a couple, of TDs with whom I have developed good relationships, I have no great expectations of what I buy. I'm just happy I'm not going to get scammed.

[RepGuy 108]

Speaking of Josh, I know he is one of the larger dealers in this, and other, forums, but I always wondered how big some of these 'mega dealers' operations can get. In not looking for specifics, but I'm curious what kind of money they are able to potentially pull in on a good year.

[Genius 281]

Speaking of Josh, I know he is one of the larger dealers in this, and other, forums, but I always wondered how big some of these 'mega dealers' operations can get. In not looking for specifics, but I'm curious what kind of money they are able to potentially pull in on a good year.

 

Around 52 billion US dollars

[doodoowah57 0]

I totally agree ... if there was no demand on our part for reps; there wouldn't be any suppliers. Trust is indeed a huge factor in the factory/seller/buyer relationship ... It is unfortunate that this has occurred on my first buy (or on any buy); am I dissuaded ??? No !!! but definitely disappointed.

 

The positive side of the testing QC pics was that it showed one of two things (or more???) 1. the movement is not 2813 but in fact Z2 POS; 2. fake QC which could mean the actual watches did not pass inspection, and they screwed up further by trying to show 28800 vph results for a 21600 movement - As a NOOB with no previous first-hand experience, I can't come up with any more conclusions based on the evidence.

 

This experience (still ongoing and awaiting re-processing results) has not deterred in any way in search of that ONE TD that I can work with over a long-run. I have faith in others and if I put myself in the TD's shoes, there would be no rhyme or reason for me to jeopardize my reputation whatsoever.

[greg_r 81]

The thing you have to bear in mind is that all of the dealers are, to a degree, at the mercy of the factories. The factories can and do change the spec of what they're supplying based on the parts they have available - WITHOUT telling the dealers.

 

This has been the case for many years and is unlikely to change in the future. The smaller dealers tend to have closer contact with the product that they're selling - which in some cases results in more info about the watch, but contrarily they often don't have websites, CC facilities or the other things that make buying easy. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

 

Personally I buy from one of the smaller dealers these days, but for sheer ease, the big dealers with websites have a lot of appeal. It's why we offer a fairly wide range of dealers here. I have personally bought from all of them, and we 'mystery shop' most of them from time to time. We know they can be trusted or they wouldn't be here. However, each has their pros and cons. It's all down to how you prefer to do business.

 

Whoever you buy from, you have to bear in mind that this is an illegal hobby. You're not buying from Amazon and things can and will go wrong occasionally. Don't throw money at reps that you can't afford to walk away from.

[Member X 91]

Speaking of Josh, I know he is one of the larger dealers in this, and other, forums, but I always wondered how big some of these 'mega dealers' operations can get. In not looking for specifics, but I'm curious what kind of money they are able to potentially pull in on a good year.

 

Around 52 billion US dollars

 

IIRC George of WM9 fame disappeared and left BK in the lurch and couldn't be traced - and it was only when TC was doing his groundwork in China to set up his business that he stumbled upon the factory that was making them, and has since been offering the YMs from that factory as his own or the base for his own (I may be wrong, of course, but that's my recollection.) Either way, and again IIRC, TC confirmed that the reason George disappeared was that he was killed driving his car...

 

 

... a Lamborghini...

 

 

 

Don't throw money at reps that you can't afford to walk away from.

This.

[doodoowah57 0]

The thing you have to bear in mind is that all of the dealers are, to a degree, at the mercy of the factories. The factories can and do change the spec of what they're supplying based on the parts they have available - WITHOUT telling the dealers.

 

This has been the case for many years and is unlikely to change in the future. The smaller dealers tend to have closer contact with the product that they're selling - which in some cases results in more info about the watch, but contrarily they often don't have websites, CC facilities or the other things that make buying easy. You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

 

Personally I buy from one of the smaller dealers these days, but for sheer ease, the big dealers with websites have a lot of appeal. It's why we offer a fairly wide range of dealers here. I have personally bought from all of them, and we 'mystery shop' most of them from time to time. We know they can be trusted or they wouldn't be here. However, each has their pros and cons. It's all down to how you prefer to do business.

 

Whoever you buy from, you have to bear in mind that this is an illegal hobby. You're not buying from Amazon and things can and will go wrong occasionally. Don't throw money at reps that you can't afford to walk away from.

We're all at the mercy of the factories ... and like you said, not a heck of a lot anyone can do to change the status quo.

 

Indeed I have factored into this hobby possible disappointment, more so now with this incident. BUT I do hold out much hope that it will be quickly and easily rectified to everyone's satisfaction. Perhaps this is a major wake up call not just for me and other collectors, BUT also to the sellers

 

READ; READ SOME MORE; READ AGAIN; THEN HOPE AND PRAY THAT ALL GOES WELL.

 

Thanks to everyone whom have contributed greatly to this ongoing post ... my eyes are going boggy with computer use and my mind is beyond overload with useful info.

[Wriggles 12]

And it's for reasons like this that we say time and again to read, read and keep reading. A lot of noobs get pissed at being told this rather than getting what they want handed on a plate, but unless you do that and set your expectations accordingly and with some amount of realistic expectation, then disappointment will almost certainly follow.

 

You have shown yourself to be someone who has taken that on board and just happened to be unfortunate enough to meet some of that disappointment in your first transaction. Now, if this was some other noob who went in like a bull in a china shop there'd no doubt be a flame war, a paypal dispute, a gulaging and a banning in the offing.

The simple fact you've not gone that route, says you're doing ok and will no doubt do well in this hobby and this forum

 

Good man, and welcome to forum!

[doodoowah57 0]

And it's for reasons like this that we say time and again to read, read and keep reading. A lot of noobs get pissed at being told this rather than getting what they want handed on a plate, but unless you do that and set your expectations accordingly and with some amount of realistic expectation, then disappointment will almost certainly follow.

 

You have shown yourself to be someone who has taken that on board and just happened to be unfortunate enough to meet some of that disappointment in your first transaction. Now, if this was some other noob who went in like a bull in a china shop there'd no doubt be a flame war, a paypal dispute, a gulaging and a banning in the offing.

The simple fact you've not gone that route, says you're doing ok and will no doubt do well in this hobby and this forum

 

Good man, and welcome to forum!

Thank you for the support & encouragement ... it goes a looooooooooooooooong ways